Trump's Trade War

[HenryJames 66045]

Maybe the real currency is the friends we make along the way.

[happyfunball 481]

Is it trump’s war?

Schumer asks government to probe rail tech from China

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-trains-crrc/schumer-asks-government-to-probe-rail-tech-from-china-idUSKCN1SP0TQ

[GRHorn 105]

SIAP

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trumps-huawei-ban-is-a-bigger-deal-than-his-trade-war.html

 

[Brisketexan 105100]

Maybe.

Or maybe I’ve read a book or two. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a massive rise in hate-filled “nationalism” as the driving political force of the age. And note that we’re seeing it worldwide, it ain’t just here.

It’s a storm of rage and hate, and it ends in blood. Go ahead, re-read the history that I know you read before. You tell us how these movements end.

[bernorange 8361]

On 5/19/2019 at 6:50 AM, HenryJames said:

Maybe the real currency is the friends we make along the way.

And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

[CowboyFred 1151]

11 hours ago, happyfunball said:

Is it trump’s war?

Schumer asks government to probe rail tech from China

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-trains-crrc/schumer-asks-government-to-probe-rail-tech-from-china-idUSKCN1SP0TQ

Yes.  His administration added the company to the “trade blacklist”.  

[Brian Fantana 6685]

10 hours ago, GRHorn said:

SIAP

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trumps-huawei-ban-is-a-bigger-deal-than-his-trade-war.html

 

Real talk this Huawei shit is fucking my whole day up (at work, HiSilicon is a customer). I'm so pissed right now, not that this wasn't expected, but the timing is the worst it could possibly be.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

58 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Real talk this Huawei shit is fucking my whole day up (at work, HiSilicon is a customer). I'm so pissed right now, not that this wasn't expected, but the timing is the worst it could possibly be.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Huawei/ is melting down

[F250 28768]

Hu

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe.

Or maybe I’ve read a book or two. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a massive rise in hate-filled “nationalism” as the driving political force of the age. And note that we’re seeing it worldwide, it ain’t just here.

It’s a storm of rage and hate, and it ends in blood. Go ahead, re-read the history that I know you read before. You tell us how these movements end.

The rise of nationalism in the early 20th century was a direct response to the communist/socialist uprisings that were sweeping Europe during a global depression. The ruling polity along with the capitalist class were literally under the threat of being lined up against a wall and shot. The rise of protectionism wasn't hampered by massive amounts of international trade along with global supply chains and multinational corporations that have created symbiotic economies across the globe. Hell, eugenics wasn't even considered unethical by liberal Western Democracies at the time. 

The circumstances from the early 20th century are not even close to being the same as they are now.

 

[Brisketexan 105100]

Hu
The rise of nationalism in the early 20th century was a direct response to the communist/socialist uprisings that were sweeping Europe during a global depression. The ruling polity along with the capitalist class were literally under the threat of being lined up against a wall and shot. The rise of protectionism wasn't hampered by massive amounts of international trade along with global supply chains and multinational corporations that have created symbiotic economies across the globe. Hell, eugenics wasn't even considered unethical by liberal Western Democracies at the time. 
The circumstances from the early 20th century are not even close to being the same as they are now.
 

The causes are dissimilar. The reaction is very similar.

[F250 28768]

36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The causes are dissimilar. The reaction is very similar.

The current nationalist movements are primarily embraced by members of the disenfranchised working class as a reaction to globalization that is being pushed by capitalists and their governments. The groups pushing globalization would have to be the ones that support nationalism for the reaction to be similar.

 

[Captainant 27658]

9 minutes ago, F250 said:

The current nationalist movements are primarily embraced by members of the disenfranchised working class as a reaction to globalization that is being pushed by capitalists and their governments. The groups pushing globalization would have to be the ones that support nationalism for the reaction to be similar.

[Biff Tannen 45678]

18 minutes ago, F250 said:

The current nationalist movements are primarily embraced by members of the disenfranchised working class as a reaction to globalization that is being pushed by capitalists and their governments. The groups pushing globalization would have to be the ones that support nationalism for the reaction to be similar.

 

That may be, but globalization isn't going away.

[Brisketexan 105100]

That may be, but globalization isn't going away.

Nor should it. The entire globe, including the working class in the west, is better off because of globalization (which didn’t start just yesterday). Not that it hasn’t had collateral negative effects, and not that it hasn’t exacerbated inequality to some extent..but Jesus, in terms of life expectancy, quality of life, etc...we’ve advanced tremendously.

[Biff Tannen 45678]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Nor should it. The entire globe, including the working class in the west, is better off because of globalization (which didn’t start just yesterday). Not that it hasn’t had collateral negative effects, and not that it hasn’t exacerbated inequality to some extent..but Jesus, in terms of life expectancy, quality of life, etc...we’ve advanced tremendously.

Right.  If we are accepting the premise that globalization is one of the main factors driving this wave of nationalism, what do we tell these people?  Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and accept that your coal job is going away and you'll have to learn a new skill?  I mean, yes, that would be logical, but these people don't deal in reality.  They actively shun it and lash out as the world changes around them and they get further and further behind.  

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

24 minutes ago, F250 said:

The current nationalist movements are primarily embraced by members of the disenfranchised working class as a reaction to globalization that is being pushed by capitalists and their governments. The groups pushing globalization would have to be the ones that support nationalism for the reaction to be similar.

 

muslim ban and build a wall and invading caravans and end iran and not sending their best are not reactions to globalization.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Some of the major power players behind the nationalist movements aren’t opposed to globalization.  They just want the globalization to be under their rules where they profit most.  The only way to get there is to destabilize the current system to the point where the rules need to be rewritten. 

[F250 28768]

29 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

muslim ban and build a wall and invading caravans and end iran and not sending their best are not reactions to globalization.

The populist movement is a reaction to globalization. The populist movement is fueled by class tension. Using racism to mask the underlying causes of class tension is a time honored tradition.

As Biff Tannen alluded to, rather than tell these people to adapt their being told to blame foreigners and minorities. Trump isn't going to do shit to stop globalization so he redirects their anger elsewhere.

[F250 28768]

47 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

That may be, but globalization isn't going away.

That's the point. The powers that be are for globalization not nationalism.

 

[Brisketexan 105100]

That's the point. The powers that be are for globalization not nationalism.
 

Except that’s flipping. The powers that be thought they could co-opt ignorant nationalism and use it for their ends. But like always happens, they have lost control of the beast, and the beast is now in control.

[Biff Tannen 45678]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Except that’s flipping. The powers that be thought they could co-opt ignorant nationalism and use it for their ends. But like always happens, they have lost control of the beast, and the beast is now in control.

Yeah, and the beast can't come out because the sun hurts his eyes so fuck the sun, I fuckin hate it too, long live the fuckin beast.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Biff Tannen

[F250 28768]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Except that’s flipping. The powers that be thought they could co-opt ignorant nationalism and use it for their ends. But like always happens, they have lost control of the beast, and the beast is now in control.

But this isn't happening, sure certain political actors have exploited the movement but their isn't a complete buy in by the polity and capitalist class like there was for fascism. That's why the reaction is not the same as it was in the past.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

26 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yeah, and the beast can't come out because the sun hurts his eyes so fuck the sun, I fuckin hate it too, long live the fuckin beast.

just amazing.

[Brisketexan 105100]

58 minutes ago, F250 said:

But this isn't happening, sure certain political actors have exploited the movement but their isn't a complete buy in by the polity and capitalist class like there was for fascism. That's why the reaction is not the same as it was in the past.

And maybe you can see the problem with a excusing a RISING movement because "it hasn't completely taken over."  That's ALWAYS TRUE....until the moment it's not.  Which is always a moment when it's too fucking late.

Hey, F250, you've got a massive case of ass cancer, but it's cool, your body hasn't completely bought in on spreading the cancer to every single organ, so I don't know why you're so worried.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

But this isn't happening, sure certain political actors have exploited the movement but their isn't a complete buy in by the polity and capitalist class like there was for fascism. That's why the reaction is not the same as it was in the past.

There isn’t a complete buy in to fascism by the capitalist class because they don’t feel threatened enough by the socialist/communist movements, like a century ago.  Once they see someone coming for their wealth and the power that comes with it, they’ll seek protection from anyone that can provide it, including fascists. 

The current nationalist/fascist movements are still dangerous and destabilizing. 

[F250 28768]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And maybe you can see the problem with a excusing a RISING movement because "it hasn't completely taken over."  That's ALWAYS TRUE....until the moment it's not.  Which is always a moment when it's too fucking late.

Hey, F250, you've got a massive case of ass cancer, but it's cool, your body hasn't completely bought in on spreading the cancer to every single organ, so I don't know why you're so worried.

You still haven't demonstrated how the current situation is very similar to the rise of nationalism in the 20th century. On top of that you have yet to explain how hate and anger will solve the current problem other than stating it's today's currency. Was that just a random analogy thrown out into the ether like ass cancer?

[F250 28768]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Once they see someone coming for their wealth and the power that comes with it, they’ll seek protection from anyone that can provide it, including fascists.  

That's the thing, no one is threatening that or even talking about it. Obama despite being a Islamic Marxist failed to nationalize private property and no one else seems interested in giving it a try either. But like ass cancer, it could happen. So you never know.

 

[Aqua Buddha 14592]

How convenient:

MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday that Russia would supply soy beans and poultry meat to China and that the United States had effectively given up on that market. 

Putin was speaking at the Russia Calling annual investment forum.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-meat-china-putin-idUSKCN1NX1C4

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Putin’s troll game is incredible. 

[happyfunball 481]

[Bama Chick 28596]

Frontline just did an hour entitled “Trump’s Trade War” and I found it pretty enlightening - especially if you’re not well versed in trade policy/economics/China.

You have to endure smug interviews from Steve Bannon in a fuzzy pullover but overall it’s worth a watch. It’s available on the PBS app.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Frontline just did an hour entitled “Trump’s Trade War” and I found it pretty enlightening - especially if you’re not well versed in trade policy/economics/China.

You have to endure smug interviews from Steve Bannon in a fuzzy pullover but overall it’s worth a watch. It’s available on the PBS app.

Before I decide whether to watch it, can you let me know whether it will confirm my existing beliefs based on ignorance or challenge my view point and cause me to re-assess my position on the matter?

[F250 28768]

4 hours ago, happyfunball said:

 

China has been attempting to ban Windows from their government systems for more than a decade which is a fairly reasonable move considering the security concerns. I don't blame them for that.

Regarding Huawei, what is interesting is not that Google and the U.S. chipmakers are cutting off Huawei but the German chipmakers showing solidarity by cutting off Huawei too. This is going to make things really interesting. I'm curious to see how things play out with Japanese and S. Korean chip makers. If Microsoft cuts them off too shit is going to get real fast for Huawei. The gloves are coming off.

There is a chance the Trump administration might actually accomplish something.

 

 

 

[babysdaddy 2721]

4 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Before I decide whether to watch it, can you let me know whether it will confirm my existing beliefs based on ignorance or challenge my view point and cause me to re-assess my position on the matter?

It is worth a watch and will challenge your viewpoint, regardless of what direction you come from.  Regardless of your opinion of Bannon and his heavy handedness, he brings important points to the program.

[happyfunball 481]

[JimmyJames 12271]

10 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

How convenient:

MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday that Russia would supply soy beans and poultry meat to China and that the United States had effectively given up on that market. 

Putin was speaking at the Russia Calling annual investment forum.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-meat-china-putin-idUSKCN1NX1C4

Midwest farmer rubes gotta rube. 

[tx 3 putt 76920]

if / when this 'trade war' ends, anyone else think that china is going to tell US Ag to go fuck themselves ?

[atomheartbevo 89656]

4 hours ago, F250 said:

There is a chance the Trump administration might actually accomplish something

Not by design. 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

11 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

if / when this 'trade war' ends, anyone else think that china is going to tell US Ag to go fuck themselves ?

100%.  China is investing all around the world. And there’s plenty of ag-related interests.  They will still own US-bases ag businesses, but those profits will flow to Beijing.  

[Biff Tannen 45678]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

100%.  China is investing all around the world. And there’s plenty of ag-related interests.  They will still own US-bases ag businesses, but those profits will flow to Beijing.  

Yep.  We are getting played like the bunch of rubes we are.

[happyfunball 481]

Yes.  His administration added the company to the “trade blacklist”.  

[GRHorn 105]

23 hours ago, F250 said:

China has been attempting to ban Windows from their government systems for more than a decade which is a fairly reasonable move considering the security concerns. I don't blame them for that.

Regarding Huawei, what is interesting is not that Google and the U.S. chipmakers are cutting off Huawei but the German chipmakers showing solidarity by cutting off Huawei too. This is going to make things really interesting. I'm curious to see how things play out with Japanese and S. Korean chip makers. If Microsoft cuts them off too shit is going to get real fast for Huawei. The gloves are coming off.

There is a chance the Trump administration might actually accomplish something.

 

 

 

I guess China steals tech from everyone and the powers that be have decided that the aggression will no longer stand. I’m interested to see what Chinese retaliation will be. Their media/propaganda has been warning people more that there’s gonna be pain ahead. 

[Biff Tannen 45678]

9 hours ago, happyfunball said:

 

 

 

 

I've read this four times and have no idea what it is trying to say.

[F250 28768]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I've read this four times and have no idea what it is trying to say.

LOL that tweet is so poorly worded that it feels like I am drunk when I read it.

 

[F250 28768]

Shit is now officially real.

 

[F250 28768]

2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I guess China steals tech from everyone and the powers that be have decided that the aggression will no longer stand. I’m interested to see what Chinese retaliation will be. Their media/propaganda has been warning people more that there’s gonna be pain ahead. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they started restricting direct market access to U.S. companies as retaliation. But even that will have a limited impact because they already engage in such protective practices compared to the U.S. Having liberal trade practices gives nations plenty of room to maneuver, our big trade deficit is our weapon. China's protectionist policies has them at a disadvantage.

There is irony at play here.

 

[Dolemite 143]

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Mnuchin - “Help is! What other country makes cheap shit that we can start buying?”

Walmart CFO - “Mexico.”

Mnuchin - “Noooo! Daddy hates them even more than the Chinese!”

[atomheartbevo 89656]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Mnuchin - “Help is! What other country makes cheap shit that we can start buying?”

Walmart CFO - “Mexico.”

Mnuchin - “Noooo! Daddy hates them even more than the Chinese!”

 

I watched a couple of documentaries on how Walmart moved stuff to China.  Given how much effort they put into their China infrastructure (for their suppliers), how much shit and bad PR they took from the Made in America crowd, and how difficult it would be to upend their supply chain and move elsewhere, I imagine that Walmart's executives and the Waltons are downright fucking furious with Trump right now.  Mnuchin's call would have been the last straw.

Trump truly does not understand what happens when you piss off real billionaires.   Lot of Republicans could find themselves primaried and/or will not be getting anything from the Waltons or Walmart.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Soviet America’s Five Year Plan continues 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz