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Updawg

By Updawg
in Can You Help Me With This?

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Updawg

Updawg 2276

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Curious what people are feeding their dogs. I got ginger from a referral from a poster on the this site a while back and have been feeding her taste of the wild from Tomlinsons

 

I just read this article and it lists it as one of the foods

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-names-16-brands-dog-food-linked-canine-heart-disease-n1025466

 

And another lawsuit for taste of the wild

https://truthaboutpetfood.com/new-lawsuit-against-taste-of-the-wild/

 

So now I need to find something else. It pisses me off because I went through a similar experience with my last dog. I'm trying to buy food that is supposed to be highly rated etc. Tempted to just go buy Costco dogfood

 

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Kennythetiger

Kennythetiger 9398

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Shit, Bear, would you adopt me?

Mine get an open bag of Purina regular food, and when they're out of that one, I open another one.  If Purina's especially high at the time, they eat Ol' Roy.  Cats and I'm sure raccoons, etc. eat out of the community bag as well.  As far as "grain-free" food, to each their own in their house, but I raise cattle for a living, and I noticed that whenever I would fill buckets of feed for the calves (1/2 cracked corn and 1/2 distillers grain, with some molasses for taste and dust control), the dogs would eat it right out of the buckets.  I assumed they were out of food so I walked over to open another bag for them and they had plenty of food.  Just preferred the calves' food, I guess.  

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elfenix

elfenix 34328

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I use Nature's Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato from Costco.  The newf holds a very steady (and substantial) weight, and his coat is beautiful. 

that's what i use.  and, shit, that's listed in the article. 

Edited by elfenix
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Hook1997

Hook1997 5394

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3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

also on the list.

 

wonder if costco will take back the half bag i have left?

 

3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

also on the list.

 

wonder if costco will take back the half bag i have left?

Eh I’m on the side of its one study and we know how that works, one minute it’s unhealthy next it’s the best thing to give them....  I don’t understand how the beef mix and the good ingredients in it could be bad for dogs?

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Updawg

Updawg 2276

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Eh I’m on the side of its one study and we know how that works, one minute it’s unhealthy next it’s the best thing to give them....  I don’t understand how the beef mix and the good ingredients in it could be bad for dogs?
I'm kind of with you on the grain free study. But I'm feeding my dog the exact same stuff in the second article that has lead. So I'm switching regardless. I'm just not sure what to

I think the grain free surge took off when it became known that some brands had worthless grains as the primary ingredients and now it has gone to the extreme of no grains
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achooloco

achooloco 1072

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Agreed on the swing of worthless grains to extreme no grain. But Oof, there is a whole lot of wtf with that article. Makes me question the entire thing. But I’m not a vet.   just logically thinking it through, I have some questions with the story   (Sorry for the length of the post, have to work today so trying to be as unproductive as possible)  But for the other link on TOTW, damn that sucks. Used to love that brand but not buying them again. Thanks for posting both.

tl/dr: first article has glaring problems but do appreciate having more info, that never hurts. 

 

So the vet is quoted as advising a switch off of grain free bc wolves “May eat the contents” of herbivores in the wild? Strong use of logic for that assumption there doc. He’s a vet, shouldn’t he have that kind of knowledge, especially if giving his medical opinion based on that info? I’m sure there is some bird or fish out there that eats berries toxic to humans, but that doesn’t mean we can eat those same poisonous berries. 

Second, sure maybe some grain is fine (moderation and all that), but the proportion that wolves MAY ingest grain is WAY out of whack with what science diet/purina/etc put into their food. We’re talking Normal size girl to Vic chola special kind of ratio here. Article and the doc do a piss poor job of explaining any of that angle. Or how eating that much grain is not normal and can be bad for a dog.

Third, the actual synopsis of the study (linked in the article) pretty much says they are going to study the dogs more for 6 months and that they have like 19 necropsies to perform but no real results yet. They did see a rise of heart disease in the dogs out of proportion to genetic propensity but outside of the breeds affected, there is not a single ounce of info on what kind of dogs exhibited the problems. By that I mean, where the dogs generally healthy? Were they chubbos? Did they have a lot of other problems? Were they within a normal weight and age range before they got heart disease? Considering most dogs get as much exercise as their owners and as a nation our obesity rates are going up, without more info, i’m going with fat people are giving their dogs heart disease. Or alternatively, people want to feed dogs what their ancestors ate but don’t give near the exercise needed to justify that kind of diet and bam, you get a sick dog. Sure, right now there seems to be a correlation to grain free but nothing close to causation. Plenty of other logical explanations for the rise in heart disease.

fourth, lots of vets are shills for the big dog food corps. They get paid left and right to push shitty dog foods out there. And that’s fine, they gotta pay back school loans and put food on the table but let’s not act like it’s all purely science driven. So in this instance it Could just be lazy reporting, could just be a bad doc, but considering the lackluster reasons for advocating in support of grain, I’m leaning towards this is a hit piece being put out by the big competitors.  

More info is always good, let the consumer decide. So while there are for me lots of problems with the article, maybe peas, lentils, legumes, and potatoes do turn out to be bad for dogs? I’d definitely like to know that since my dog loves him some French fries and an occasional bean filled nacho that has missed my mouth and hit the floor instead.

i feed him Stella and chewy raw blend, but would love to have the time to research and prepare straight raw. For me, I think it is logical to feed them as close to what they should be eating in the wild but I also try to walk him between 1-2 hours a day (can y’all guess I have no kids?). But that varies from dog to dog and owner to owner. If you eat like Phelps but have no daily physical regimen, your ass is gonna die unhealthy as fuck. But it isn’t the fault of the food.

good luck finding one, I really like S&C but I’m sure there are other great brands out there.

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dcbc

dcbc 14492

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I went through a lot of fancy dog food with my last Golden, who was picky about food and died of cancer at 7 yrs old.  After watching my father-in-law's dogs eat blue bag purina, have few, if any, health issues, and live pretty long lives, I decided to go with medium price dry foods for my next dogs.  My pair of shnauzerish rescues have eaten Pedigree for years and have been fine, healthy dogs. 

Fast forward to a couple of months ago, we get a mostly Lab/Golden 1/4 doodle from a friend.  I put her on the same stuff (puppy version).  We get shamed by the vet.  So I talk to a buddy who is super parental with his dogs, and switch her to Sam's Member's Mark (Exceed).  She likes it.  Poops are firm, it's reasonable.  I figure, that's good enough.

But I still think that as long as the dog enjoys it, there are no weird reactions to it, and the turds come out firm, it's fine, and the fancy stuff is not doing your wallet or your dog any tremendous benefits healthwise. 

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dcbc

dcbc 14492

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Just now, Gil Bang said:

I assume that the vet shamed you into buying food that the vet sells?

Probably.  But I've heard the Science Diet pitch before.  Hence the Sam's Club brand (which Amazon sells, too).  Seems like  a good compromise. 

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18015

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Ol' Callie is a senior citizen doggo and we've had to have some of her teeth pulled, so she gets Freshpet Chicken and rice from the fridge dog food aisle at an open HEB.  
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXVwupCELtrL-PybMZ2GbCYQwq_fCD80rDCmE1au0bZtMOLien


When my last dog got up there in age and had trouble eating dry food, I gave her a mixture of ground chicken, brown rice, peas, and carrots. I’d just cook a big batch every 3 days or so.
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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

 I’d just cook a big batch every 3 days or so.

 

why bother cooking it?   You could just mix it all up in a food processor and freeze it in serving sizes. 

I add a few drops of "Pet-Tinic" in the batch to add vitamins and minerals. Pet-Tinic is cheap: ~$12 for a 4oz bottle and goes a long way. I keep bottle in the garage frig all the time. 

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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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15 hours ago, Soldierhorn said:

why bother cooking it?   You could just mix it all up in a food processor and freeze it in serving sizes. 

I add a few drops of "Pet-Tinic" in the batch to add vitamins and minerals. Pet-Tinic is cheap: ~$12 for a 4oz bottle and goes a long way. I keep bottle in the garage frig all the time. 

I forgot to add that I add a couple of eggs to the mix.  I start by grinding the chicken bones and egg shells, then add everything else.  It sounds like a lot but it's actually very reasonable and VERY good for the animals. 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

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On 7/3/2019 at 10:11 AM, achooloco said:

Agreed on the swing of worthless grains to extreme no grain. But Oof, there is a whole lot of wtf with that article. Makes me question the entire thing. But I’m not a vet.   just logically thinking it through, I have some questions with the story   (Sorry for the length of the post, have to work today so trying to be as unproductive as possible)  But for the other link on TOTW, damn that sucks. Used to love that brand but not buying them again. Thanks for posting both.

tl/dr: first article has glaring problems but do appreciate having more info, that never hurts. 

 

So the vet is quoted as advising a switch off of grain free bc wolves “May eat the contents” of herbivores in the wild? Strong use of logic for that assumption there doc. He’s a vet, shouldn’t he have that kind of knowledge, especially if giving his medical opinion based on that info? I’m sure there is some bird or fish out there that eats berries toxic to humans, but that doesn’t mean we can eat those same poisonous berries. 

Second, sure maybe some grain is fine (moderation and all that), but the proportion that wolves MAY ingest grain is WAY out of whack with what science diet/purina/etc put into their food. We’re talking Normal size girl to Vic chola special kind of ratio here. Article and the doc do a piss poor job of explaining any of that angle. Or how eating that much grain is not normal and can be bad for a dog.

Third, the actual synopsis of the study (linked in the article) pretty much says they are going to study the dogs more for 6 months and that they have like 19 necropsies to perform but no real results yet. They did see a rise of heart disease in the dogs out of proportion to genetic propensity but outside of the breeds affected, there is not a single ounce of info on what kind of dogs exhibited the problems. By that I mean, where the dogs generally healthy? Were they chubbos? Did they have a lot of other problems? Were they within a normal weight and age range before they got heart disease? Considering most dogs get as much exercise as their owners and as a nation our obesity rates are going up, without more info, i’m going with fat people are giving their dogs heart disease. Or alternatively, people want to feed dogs what their ancestors ate but don’t give near the exercise needed to justify that kind of diet and bam, you get a sick dog. Sure, right now there seems to be a correlation to grain free but nothing close to causation. Plenty of other logical explanations for the rise in heart disease.

fourth, lots of vets are shills for the big dog food corps. They get paid left and right to push shitty dog foods out there. And that’s fine, they gotta pay back school loans and put food on the table but let’s not act like it’s all purely science driven. So in this instance it Could just be lazy reporting, could just be a bad doc, but considering the lackluster reasons for advocating in support of grain, I’m leaning towards this is a hit piece being put out by the big competitors.  

More info is always good, let the consumer decide. So while there are for me lots of problems with the article, maybe peas, lentils, legumes, and potatoes do turn out to be bad for dogs? I’d definitely like to know that since my dog loves him some French fries and an occasional bean filled nacho that has missed my mouth and hit the floor instead.

i feed him Stella and chewy raw blend, but would love to have the time to research and prepare straight raw. For me, I think it is logical to feed them as close to what they should be eating in the wild but I also try to walk him between 1-2 hours a day (can y’all guess I have no kids?). But that varies from dog to dog and owner to owner. If you eat like Phelps but have no daily physical regimen, your ass is gonna die unhealthy as fuck. But it isn’t the fault of the food.

good luck finding one, I really like S&C but I’m sure there are other great brands out there.

The oldest confirmed dog to be buried next to a human walked the earth over 14,000 years ago. Dogs diverged from wolves as a seperate species between 20,000 and 40,000 years ago. So they have been domesticated for a long time. And eating whatever leftovers humans have had all that time. They have evolved along side us more than any other species of animal. Evolutionarily, they are supposed to eat grains by now, because grains have been in their diets for many thousands of years of evolution.

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achooloco

achooloco 1072

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51 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

The oldest confirmed dog to be buried next to a human walked the earth over 14,000 years ago. Dogs diverged from wolves as a seperate species between 20,000 and 40,000 years ago. So they have been domesticated for a long time. And eating whatever leftovers humans have had all that time. They have evolved along side us more than any other species of animal. 

That part

51 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Evolutionarily, they are supposed to eat grains by now, because grains have been in their diets for many thousands of years of evolution.

To that part is the disconnect. Setting aside the fact that dogs would still inherently eat generally what their ancestors did (hello human paleo diet), just bc dogs ate scraps nothing in that would indicate they would be eating the “grains scraps” (whatever that hypothetical food may be) instead of leaving them aside.  There is nothing “supposed to” about it, logically speaking.

But ok, sure maybe they ate some, that is plausible. But the crap that purina, science diet, etc sell is almost all grains, and barely anything else.  Even if SOME grains have been in their diets over thousands of years, the amount of grains being fed TODAY would not be equal to what they have evolved to eat along side humans.  

 

Edit: by grains I mean basically just corn. Not even fucking good grains, plain ass corn and corn filler

Edited by achooloco
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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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I'm going to skip a lot of the malarkey.

Dogs dont eat grains in nature - that's not what they do - but they will eat just about anything that is mixed with meat, which happens if they eat the stomach of what they eat.  Dogs dont eat cooked food in nature either but being part scavenger, they will eat cooked meat. The fact that dogs will eat what humans feed them is not evolutionary any more than eating out of a human bowl means they are ready to sit at the table with a fork and knife and hold a conversation.  It also doesnt mean that eating grains and cooked food is necessarily good for them either.  

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

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Posted
1 hour ago, achooloco said:

That part

To that part is the disconnect. Setting aside the fact that dogs would still inherently eat generally what their ancestors did (hello human paleo diet), just bc dogs ate scraps nothing in that would indicate they would be eating the “grains scraps” (whatever that hypothetical food may be) instead of leaving them aside.  There is nothing “supposed to” about it, logically speaking.

But ok, sure maybe they ate some, that is plausible. But the crap that purina, science diet, etc sell is almost all grains, and barely anything else.  Even if SOME grains have been in their diets over thousands of years, the amount of grains being fed TODAY would not be equal to what they have evolved to eat along side humans.  

 

Edit: by grains I mean basically just corn. Not even fucking good grains, plain ass corn and corn filler

I'm not trying to say that the cheap corn filled dog food we have today is healthy, but rather that this grain free stuff ignores thousands of years of evolution. Domestic dogs actually posses genes that wild wolves don't have that allow them to more efficiently digest starches. This is either a result of domestication, a condition that led to domestication, or a combination of two. Either way dogs have evolved with grains in their diet for thousands of years and completely removing them is not necessarily a good thing.

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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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They didnt evolve in the sense I think you mean it.  they were bred.  Dogs with good genes that led to better domestication were re-bred - an unnatural selection process.  If it is a fact that some dogs can tolerate more grains than a wolf does not mean more grains are actually good for them.  When I give my dogs raw chicken, they get quite giddy and run around the yard.  My cat does something very similar when I give her raw fish or chicken.  Last night I put a chicken thigh bone in my cat's bowl, she ran over quickly, ate ALL the cartilage and literally half the bone.  Cats are more carnivorous than dogs and this is what both need. 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

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So the fact that Europeans can tolerate more lactose in their diet does not mean dairy is good for them? And we are just going to assume it is bad for them since their ancestral apes didn't tolerate it. There are multiple examples of humans evolving dietary traits that help them survive, most of which have developed since the domestication of dogs. When I give my toddler candy it elicits the same response you get from your pets when they are fed raw meat. Doesn't mean she should be fed a diet of candy. In fact, dogs will often go after the cheaper dog food before the healthier stuff because the cheap food is cased with fats and oils to make it more palatable, the canine equivalent of covering it in sugar.

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achooloco

achooloco 1072

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8 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm not trying to say that the cheap corn filled dog food we have today is healthy, but rather that this grain free stuff ignores thousands of years of evolution. Domestic dogs actually posses genes that wild wolves don't have that allow them to more efficiently digest starches. This is either a result of domestication, a condition that led to domestication, or a combination of two. Either way dogs have evolved with grains in their diet for thousands of years and completely removing them is not necessarily a good thing.

That’s fair. So I guess the question is which is least harmful? Cause if I have to choose between corn crap and grain free... although if there were some cheap dog food that was not corn filled, I’m all ears. 

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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So the fact that Europeans can tolerate more lactose in their diet does not mean dairy is good for them? And we are just going to assume it is bad for them since their ancestral apes didn't tolerate it. There are multiple examples of humans evolving dietary traits that help them survive, most of which have developed since the domestication of dogs. When I give my toddler candy it elicits the same response you get from your pets when they are fed raw meat. Doesn't mean she should be fed a diet of candy. In fact, dogs will often go after the cheaper dog food before the healthier stuff because the cheap food is cased with fats and oils to make it more palatable, the canine equivalent of covering it in sugar.

That's a whole lot of bad logic.  If you want to justify what you do by comparing dairy and monkeys or what is good for dogs to you giving your toddler candy, then go ahead.  

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52-80

52-80 19191

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much ado about dog food, but most of it revolves around getting the most "real" ingredients (natural proteins) and fewest fillers. 

i have an issue of certain categories of designer dog food costing more on a per unit weight basis than actual human-quality proteins (chicken, meat, etc) ....but thats another story for another day.

 

long story short what ive learned is most domestic dogs are sensitive on food.  whether it causes them flatulence, allergies, or they flat out dont like it.  we've tried tons of stuff and our dog gets along well with Royal Canin hypoallergenic dry food, and Cesar's and Animonda Gran Carno's wet food.  no poultry version.  we feed her half-half and its what keeps her happy. 

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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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Victor looks expensive on amazon.  From my point of view, anything approaching $2 per pound for kibble is expensive.  The only one I saw that was reasonable was the "Beef Meal & Brown Rice Formula, Dry Dog Food" at $43 for a 40 lb bag and it has a lot of grain and no real meat. 

Edited by Soldierhorn
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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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1 minute ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Find a local feed store if you are in TX.
The 40 lb bag I used for my gsp was less than $1 per lb.

I will. there are a couple of places in Copperas cove, Belton and Salado that sell Victor. 

Which type of victor do you use?  I can look up the ingredients on the internet and find out if it's worth the side trip coming back from the Temple VA next week

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52-80

52-80 19191

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9 hours ago, Soldierhorn said:

 

Victor looks expensive on amazon.  From my point of view, anything approaching $2 per pound for kibble is expensive. 

Ive seen far worse offenders.  Dog food seems like a good racket to be in.  Mash up industrial food waste.  Ball it up and dehydrate.  Market the shit out of it and reserve some of those fat margins for lawyers in the event you get sued. 

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Soldierhorn

Soldierhorn 206

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On 7/2/2019 at 6:56 PM, Big D said:

Texas Tripe

http://www.texastripe.com/

You place your order and then pick it up from the designated spot and time from the delivery truck.

How much is TexasTripe?  I went to the website and it looks like you have to sign up with a personal information page just look at the prices.  Is it cheaper than FreshPet at HEB?

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Big D

Big D 249

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2 hours ago, Soldierhorn said:

How much is TexasTripe?  I went to the website and it looks like you have to sign up with a personal information page just look at the prices.  Is it cheaper than FreshPet at HEB?

I have a puppy.  I feed him Beginners Blend.  I pay $102.50 for 40lbs..  I mix it with his kibble so it lasts longer.  His breeder recommended them to me.

  1. Beef: Protein and Vitamin B12, which provides energy and good muscle health
  2. Sardines: The fatty acids have many health benefits, like cancer prevention, reducing inflammation, and keeping the immune systemstrong. CoQ10 supports a healthy heart and circulation. The fatty acids also help brain development, which makes them good for puppies. info about the sardines came from - https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/sardines-for-dogs
  3. Tripe: has pro-biotics which aid with digestion, cleans and purifies the blood, removes toxins, parasites, and fungus
  4. Beef Organs (Liver, Kidney): Which have just about every nutrient, B vitamins, folic acid, and minerals there is. Which promotes a stronger healthier immune system?
  5. Beef Bone: Calcium and Phosphorus, helps promote healthy teeth and gums and strengthens bones
  6. . Fat: help promote healthy skin and shinier coat, helps manage metabolism, fights off illness and diseases, and increases brain function

Guaranteed Analysis:
Moisture............................63.31%
Crude Protein...................12.59%
Crude Fiber.........................0.24%
Fat (EE)..............................16.01%
Ash......................................1.37%
Calcium...............................0.40%
Phosphorus........................0.27%
Calorie Content:
(ME as Calculated)
2210 kcal/kg
1003 kcal/lb
63 kcal/oz

 

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