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Fire Shaka Smart

smokebomb

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Red Five
Red Five

That is tough to accomplish in four years, but I wouldn't put it past Shaka.

immamac
immamac
Camelback80
Camelback80

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here. Fans need to realize 2 maj

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted (edited)

Texas is currently #18 nationally in AdjO and #37 in AdjD (average of 29.5), so i looked to see which other teams had an average ranking in AdjO and AdjD that comes out to 30 or better. Here they are listed first in order of average combined ranking in AdjO and AdjD, and then listed in order of record:

Combined average ranking of both AdjO and AdjD:

Duke- 3

UVA- 3

Michigan State- 7.5

Gonzaga- 8.5

UNC- 10

Kentucky- 11.5

Michigan- 14

Tennessee- 17.5

Va Tech- 18.5

Purdue- 19

Texas Tech- 19

Houston- 21.5

Kansas- 22

Maryland- 23.5

Florida State- 23.5

Wisconsin- 23.5

Buffalo- 25

Louisville- 26.5

Auburn- 26.5

Nevada- 26.5

Texas- 27.5

Marquette- 29.5 

ISU- 29.5

 

Now listed in order of W/L record

 

Gonzaga 29-2

Houston 27-2

UVA 26-2

Tennessee 26-3

Buffalo- 26-3

Nevada 26-3

Duke 25-4

Michigan 25-4

 UNC 24-5

Kentucky 24-5

Texas Tech 24-5

LSU 24-5

Marquette 23-5

Michigan State- 23-6

FSU 23-6

Virginia Tech 22-6

Kansas 22-7

Purdue 22-7

Maryland 21-8

Iowa State 20-9 

Auburn 20-9

Wisconsin 20-9

Louisville 18-11

Texas 16-13

That's pretty telling imo. And for the record, while this whole "top 30 composite teams" metric was chosen simply because Texas came in at 29.5, it turned out that the number wasn't as arbitrary as i'd anticipated. There weren't exactly a bunch of teams with shitty records just outside that mark, and in fact there were hardly any other teams near that mark at all. Of the remaining teams in the country only Mississippi State (32 average O and D, 21-8 record) had an average AdjO and AdjD that came out to lower than 40. 

This isn't brand new information, but it's probably a new way for you (and me) to look at what we already know- a team as good as ours should be nowhere near 16-13, particularly considering that we have a fourth year coach who has signed three consecutive outstanding recruiting classes and who has featured one-and-done lottery pick big men on each of his last three teams. Louisville and Texas are the only two teams listed here with less than 20 wins, they are the only two teams with double digit losses, and Chris Mack's situation at L'Ville is not exactly comparable to Shaka's situation at Texas. 

Two words describe Shaka Smart's coaching career: perpetual underachieving. I mean, as insanely hyperbolic as this sounds, I believe that Shaka Smart is the kind of guy who could finish 4th in the AAC with a team good enough to go the Final Four. Maybe that's just my anti-Shaka bias talking there, but I dunno; I could see it happening.

Edited by Goo Punch
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2inDaPink1inDaStink

2inDaPink1inDaStink 106

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Posted
3 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

cross eric musselman off the list

The Utah State thing? If I am parent sending my little thugster to a coach for 1 to 4 years, I have to ask, who do I want watching out for them, a Shaka Smart type guy or an Eric Musselman. I have to look at their performances following both the Baylor game and the Utah state game and the answer is clear,  Musselman all the way baby. 

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 6177

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Posted

At this point, I'm of the opinion that there's almost no way he's gone this year.  It would take us losing out and not making the tourney and, even then, I'm not sure he's gone.  As it stands, TX is currently around an 8-9 seed.  You really think a team "solidly" in the tourney that may lose to another decent 8-9 team is going to fire the coach?  No way - especially given the buyout.

 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted
Just now, Red Five said:

No clue. I also don't think CDC is going to keep a guy around simply because of the size of his buyout. 

If Shaka makes the tournament there is very little chance he's fired.

Eat over $15 million for a coach that's made the tourney 3/4 years when the coaching market sucks? The optics are terrible. 

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Red Five said:

No clue. I also don't think CDC is going to keep a guy around simply because of the size of his buyout. 

So if we go one-and-done in the NCAAs, Shaka gets another year, and it's not about the buyout, what does that say about expectations for our basketball program?

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted

I've had to bring this up this all year, and i'm starting to get annoyed that i keep hearing the same nonsensical refrain: "Shaka will *not* get fired if he makes the tournament."

I want to pull my hair out every time someone says this. This is one of those things that gets repeated, and that people end up believing, despite the fact that it makes no fucking sense whatsoever upon two seconds of reflecting on it. As if CDC is sitting in his office just twiddling his thumbs, waiting to see if we make the tourney or not so that his decision can be made for him. As if it literally only comes down to that one thing. It's a completely retarded take and people need to stop saying it.

We finish 17-16 and go one-and-done and there's *no chance* he gets fired says 80% of you. *No chance*. Fred Hoiberg wants the job? Nope, made the tourney. Buzz Williams wants the job? Nope, made the tourney. Eric Musselman wants the job? Nope, made the tourney. Hayes goes pro, Hamm and Liddell transfer, Jones isn't back to 100%, Wake Forest wants Shaka to be their coach and CDC is afforded the ability to make some financial moves, Hoiberg, Buzz, Prohm, Howland, Musselman, and Beard all want the job? NOPE, MADE THE TOURNEY, HANDS ARE TIED BRO. 

Give me a got damn break. You have to really not think shit about CDC if you think that simply making this weak ass tourney field is some sort of get out of jail free card for Shaka Smart. 

Seriously- level with me here- What in  the hell do you guys think CDC is doing right now? Do you think he's still forming an opinion on Shaka Smart? Like, "Ooh, gee, not sure what to think about this guy. Boy do I need selection sunday to get here quick so i can figure out if he's any good or not." In the words of the enigmatic Jose Mourinho: "Respect; respect." You are out of your element if you don't think/know that CDC has already put out feelers to see if anybody wants to take this sorry SOB off our hands and if there's anything we/they/Shaka can do to where all parties involved get what they want and still save face. Making the fucking tournament has nothing to do with it. Stop saying that it does. All of you. Jesus. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14630

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

If Shaka makes the tournament there is very little chance he's fired.

Eat over $15 million for a coach that's made the tourney 3/4 years when the coaching market sucks? The optics are terrible. 

you only do it if you have the guy you absolutely want(and maybe have wanted)...but yeah he's likely back and I would expect us to be the same team we've been for 3 of 4 years.  AJ coming back, if in form, can certainly replace roach but no one is replacing Hayes, IMO.

hope we beat TCU and make a run. you never know.

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6281

Posted
Posted

Shaka is going to get lucky (like he did at VCU) and make a fluky (but ultimately meaningless) tournament run just about the time his buyout gets manageable.  Then, we'll be in quite the pickle, what with "optics" being so important to everyone.  

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dcar00

dcar00 14630

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I've had to bring this up this all year, and i'm starting to get annoyed that i keep hearing the same nonsensical refrain: "Shaka will *not* get fired if he makes the tournament."

I want to pull my hair out every time someone says this. This is one of those things that gets repeated, and that people end up believing, despite the fact that it makes no fucking sense whatsoever upon two seconds of reflecting on it. As if CDC is sitting in his office just twiddling his thumbs, waiting to see if we make the tourney or not so that his decision can be made for him. As if it literally only comes down to that one thing. It's a completely retarded take and people need to stop saying it.

We finish 17-16 and go one-and-done and there's *no chance* he gets fired says 80% of you. *No chance*. Fred Hoiberg wants the job? Nope, made the tourney. Buzz Williams wants the job? Nope, made the tourney. Eric Musselman wants the job? Nope, made the tourney. Hayes goes pro, Hamm and Liddell transfer, Jones isn't back to 100%, Wake Forest wants Shaka to be their coach and CDC is afforded the ability to make some financial moves, Hoiberg, Buzz, Prohm, Howland, Musselman, and Beard all want the job? NOPE, MADE THE TOURNEY, HANDS ARE TIED BRO. 

Give me a got damn break. You have to really not think shit about CDC if you think that simply making this weak ass tourney field is some sort of get out of jail free card for Shaka Smart. 

Seriously- level with me here- What in  the hell do you guys think CDC is doing right now? Do you think he's still forming an opinion on Shaka Smart? Like, "Ooh, gee, not sure what to think about this guy. Boy do I need selection sunday to get here quick so i can figure out if he's any good or not." In the words of the enigmatic Jose Mourinho: "Respect; respect." You are out of your element if you don't think/know that CDC has already put out feelers to see if anybody wants to take this sorry SOB off our hands and if there's anything we/they/Shaka can do to where all parties involved get what they want and still save face. Making the fucking tournament has nothing to do with it. Stop saying that it does. All of you. Jesus. 

I take CDC at his word that he wants top 10 level coaches(I'd take top 20 in BBall) and that he doesn't want coaches from mid majors.  Shaka is neither.  look at Softball and Track.  I know there wasn't a buyout in those situations but look at who he hired.   I submit, it is possible, Herman or Pierce might not be our coaches in FB and Baseball coaches if CDC were the AD at the time.

At this point, I'm trusting CDC to make the right move and the buyout being 13M or 9M isn't going to make a difference.  a first round bounce outs and finishing 4th -10th in the conf over 4 years gets you fired if CDC is being honest about his requirements for a coach at Texas.  but the thing is you don't fire a mid major guy for another mid major guy based on what he says he requires.  yes I realize Gonzaga/Butler and a couple of others are mid majors but those guys had/have multiple tourney runs.  

While I do understand Texas basketball is not blue blood and its harder to rip coaches away from top 20 programs for us in basketball, if he makes a move it is going to be big, IMO.  He knows no other way and now he is at a school that has the resources to go big.

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dcar00

dcar00 14630

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Posted
7 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Shaka is going to get lucky (like he did at VCU) and make a fluky (but ultimately meaningless) tournament run just about the time his buyout gets manageable.  Then, we'll be in quite the pickle, what with "optics" being so important to everyone.  

Im on the side of CDC not caring about optics if he has the right guy.

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dcar00

dcar00 14630

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I can't wait to see the "Fire CDC" thread when Shaka is retained.

anyone who thinks we for sure fire him even if he makes the tournament is living in dreamland.  I'm ambivalent to shaka at this point.  I want him fired but not going to get too worked up if he stays.  Charlie, on the other hand, was a whole different matter.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Texas is currently #18 nationally in AdjO and #37 in AdjD (average of 29.5), so i looked to see which other teams had an average ranking in AdjO and AdjD that comes out to 30 or better. Here they are listed first in order of average combined ranking in AdjO and AdjD, and then listed in order of record:

Combined average ranking of both AdjO and AdjD:

Duke- 3

UVA- 3

Michigan State- 7.5

Gonzaga- 8.5

UNC- 10

Kentucky- 11.5

Michigan- 14

Tennessee- 17.5

Va Tech- 18.5

Purdue- 19

Texas Tech- 19

Houston- 21.5

Kansas- 22

Maryland- 23.5

Florida State- 23.5

Wisconsin- 23.5

Buffalo- 25

Louisville- 26.5

Auburn- 26.5

Nevada- 26.5

Texas- 27.5

Marquette- 29.5 

ISU- 29.5

 

Now listed in order of W/L record

 

Gonzaga 29-2

Houston 27-2

UVA 26-2

Tennessee 26-3

Buffalo- 26-3

Nevada 26-3

Duke 25-4

Michigan 25-4

 UNC 24-5

Kentucky 24-5

Texas Tech 24-5

LSU 24-5

Marquette 23-5

Michigan State- 23-6

FSU 23-6

Virginia Tech 22-6

Kansas 22-7

Purdue 22-7

Maryland 21-8

Iowa State 20-9 

Auburn 20-9

Wisconsin 20-9

Louisville 18-11

Texas 16-13

That's pretty telling imo. And for the record, while this whole "top 30 composite teams" metric was chosen simply because Texas came in at 29.5, it turned out that the number wasn't as arbitrary as i'd anticipated. There weren't exactly a bunch of teams with shitty records just outside that mark, and in fact there were hardly any other teams near that mark at all. Of the remaining teams in the country only Mississippi State (32 average O and D, 21-8 record) had an average AdjO and AdjD that came out to lower than 40. 

This isn't brand new information, but it's probably a new way for you (and me) to look at what we already know- a team as good as ours should be nowhere near 16-13, particularly considering that we have a fourth year coach who has signed three consecutive outstanding recruiting classes and who has featured one-and-done lottery pick big men on each of his last three teams. Louisville and Texas are the only two teams listed here with less than 20 wins, they are the only two teams with double digit losses, and Chris Mack's situation at L'Ville is not exactly comparable to Shaka's situation at Texas. 

Two words describe Shaka Smart's coaching career: perpetual underachieving. I mean, as insanely hyperbolic as this sounds, I believe that Shaka Smart is the kind of guy who could finish 4th in the AAC with a team good enough to go the Final Four. Maybe that's just my anti-Shaka bias talking there, but I dunno; I could see it happening.

Pretty good review here. So if his offense and defense aren’t great but aren’t really the sole contributor to the underachieving then what is? Can he just not inspire? Does he have the ISU problem of nice pieces but no one cares about the team/program? No pride?

On 3/2/2019 at 9:46 AM, 6th Street said:

Can we hire Rick Pitino?

Say what you want and trash him all you want, UT would probably be in the E8 by year 3 and maybe sooner. I hope UCLA gets their head out of their self righteous ass and hires him. It’s good for CBB when UCLA is relevant. Pitino has his problems (and night even bring his problems)  but outside of Mack he is the only cant miss hire right now. 

Edited by Jhawk
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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6281

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Posted
13 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

  I'm ambivalent to shaka at this point.  I want him fired but not going to get too worked up if he stays.  Charlie, on the other hand, was a whole different matter.

And that's a) the difference between football and basketball at UT, and b) why shaka likely isn't going anywhere

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

This board has elevated CDC to a Messiah like level.

So much this. Every coach is going to be on the hot seat just because they think CDC can hire whoever he wants. It's already happening in the women's sports. 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

*No chance*. Fred Hoiberg wants the job?

"Little chance" 

I think the only chance CDC makes a move is if there is a big name coach that he has lined up ready to hire. I don't think CDC is the type to pay a buyout like that with a shit coaching market. If a change is made it's because CDC found somebody behind the scenes. 

Paying a $15 million buyout to chase coaches like Prohm or Keatts is just a bad look. But maybe CDC can hire a bigger name than that. 

Edited by texasstrong12
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted

you did say "little chance" but plenty here have maintained all year that simply making the tourney means Shaka is safe. That's total nonsense to me. Shaka will be canned if CDC is convinced that he has the right candidate in line and ready to take over, and he wont be if CDC doesn't. Making the tourney plays no part in it. The entire body of work screams "fire me", and if it weren't for the buyout it would be a done deal, tourney appearance or not. the buyout is what complicates things, not whether or not we make the tourney. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14630

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, GotThatFire said:

 Has there ever been a coach that failed so badly to do what he was hired to do, that his conscience got the better of him and refused the buyout upon being fired? 

the only time it seems to be negotiated down is if the coach has some type of scandal or internal issue that could potential get him fired for cause.

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PilotsError

PilotsError 2338

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, GotThatFire said:

 Has there ever been a coach that failed so badly to do what he was hired to do, that his conscience got the better of him and refused the buyout upon being fired? 

 

didn't the oregon state coach do that recently?

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

 

didn't the oregon state coach do that recently?

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/10/9/16450356/gary-andersen-oregon-state-resigned-head-coach

Quote

Gary Andersen is out as Oregon State’s head football coach, and in an unusual way. The school announced Andersen’s resignation on Monday, and it came with a twist: Andersen is freeing the school from all of its financial obligations to him.

OSU was reportedly on the hook for about $12 million to Andersen through 2021, and the coach is leaving every cent of that on the table. Athletic director Scott Barnes calls it an “unprecedented” sacrifice on Andersen’s part. (Steve Spurrier walked away from coaching at South Carolina almost exactly two years ago and didn’t collect a $3 million buyout that the Gamecocks would’ve had to pay to fire him, which was similar.)

 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6721

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Pretty good review here. So if his offense and defense aren’t great but aren’t really the sole contributor to the underachieving then what is? Can he just not inspire? Does he have the ISU problem of nice pieces but no one cares about the team/program? No pride?

Say what you want and trash him all you want, UT would probably be in the E8 by year 3 and maybe sooner. I hope UCLA gets their head out of their self righteous ass and hires him. It’s good for CBB when UCLA is relevant. Pitino has his problems (and night even bring his problems)  but outside of Mack he is the only cant miss hire right now. 

 

1 hour ago, Underdog said:

LOL...  No. 

Yeah I'm not gonna lie this is like a hard stereotypical blue blood circling the wagons thing to say. It's good for CBB when enough teams are relevant, it doesn't matter if it's fucking UCLA, who rides the wave of 40+ year old success like some kind of fucking surf aggy.

Edit: Agreed with the rest of what you said though lol

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Gucci_Suit

Gucci_Suit 2688

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MotownHorn said:

Rick Pitino?!? Are you people kidding me?!?

I’d rather lose every single game for the next 10 years than have that scumbag be the head coach at the University of Texas

I’d rather have a scumbag as a coach than lose every game for the next 10 years... but that’s just me and I hate losing. 

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Js1

Js1 85885

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I'd rather disband the program than reach the point where we hire Rick Pitino

Ding ding ding.

Sorry, we can do way better than Rick Pitino.  We don't play those games. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19139

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Look I am not happy with Shaka either but no way you fire him unless you have someone lined up as mentioned above.

Pretty sure no big name coach will leave the program they are coaching to come to Texas.

Which is why Hoiberg seems the most likely if we hire a new coach this year.

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Js1

Js1 85885

Posted
Posted

I didn't think CDC would get Mike White to come to Texas to coach softball, but he did.  The man knows what he is doing.  He's going to sell the academic reputation, the new facilities, the money and the recruiting base.  

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Not really "sure" but I don't understand why a coach at a basketball school would really want to come here at this point.

 

You'd work for Chris Del Conte, you'd be among the top 10-15 paid coaches in the country, you'd lead the flagship program in a state that generates a ton of I-A talent and has recruited nationally for 20 years, you'd live in/recruit to a trendy city with what Northerners think is nice weather, you'd have everything you need to win a national championship without a fan base expecting or demanding it. You're getting a new state-of-the-art basketball arena in two years. 

This is a better job than Indiana in the college basketball landscape of 2019. It's a top-10 job. I know we're all off the Shaka bandwagon but let's not forget what a coup signing him was thought to be, four years ago-- fucking UCLA couldn't pry him out of Bum's Holler, VA, and we did.

There is a huge difference between the impact coaching at a "football school" has on a football program, and the impact coaching at a "basketball school" has on a basketball program. If you want to get into the college football playoff, you had better coach at a football school. You will practically never be able to recruit well enough to get there otherwise. We're not a "basketball school" the way St. John's is, or UCLA is, but there is nothing stopping a coach from winning a national championship here. We can get a coach from a basketball school-- that distinction is something football fans misapply to basketball programs.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Not really "sure" but I don't understand why a coach at a basketball school would really want to come here at this point.

 

This is the relevant part of the part and the reason why they wouldn't. Hard to make them both work and be successful without fighting for dollars/ resources between programs IMO.  This has been a long standing philosophical  argument. I'm squarely in the no basketball school coach would do it as a first choice.

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Not really "sure" but I don't understand why a coach at a basketball school would really want to come here at this point.

 

Who would you define as a "big name" at a basketball school?

I think we would all agree that the traditional blue bloods (UNC, Duke, UCLA, Indiana, Kentucky) are out of bounds. What else?

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