Fire Shaka Smart

[Rockethorn1978 6,109]

I don’t think he sucks but I think we can get better than Jamie Dixon. I think everyone can agree with that as well. If it was my only option sure I would take Dixon over Shaka all day but I think cdc will have better candidates than him.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

16 minutes ago, Blotto said:

 

Surprisingly, Holtman at tOSU is 3rd at 7 million.

 

that's not his regular salary

[texasstrong12 4,668]

12 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I don’t think he sucks but I think we can get better than Jamie Dixon. 

He definitely doesn't suck. Dixon was a very good coach from '03-'10. The problem is that was eight years ago. 

In the last 8 years he's 67-64 in conference and has lost 17, 9, 10, 15, 12, 15, 12, and likely 14 games this year. 

I would be excited about the Dixon from 8 years ago. Same as I would be about Mack Brown. 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Goo Punch 4,275]

7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Tony Bennett would be who I start with (though I don’t think he would take it).  His style of play is boring as fuck and that coupled with getting run by a 16 seed last year made me swear I would never want him coaching my team ... but objectively he has the best resume and most success of anyone that might be even quasi-realistic.  I say quasi-realistic because he only makes about $2 million and UVA ultimately doesn’t give a shit about sports the way most power 5 schools do.

i would kill to get Bennett.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Some relevant and interesting points. 

[Blotto 23,585]

Just now, Goo Punch said:

Nobody here wants Jamie Dixon, but let's not act like he sucks, or like he's not clearly superior to shaka.

Exactly. You can now make a solid argument Shaka is easily the worst coach in conference, excluding the OSU coach who has no history. Shaka's only strength is recruiting, but Texas has been recruiting well for the better part of 20 years. Do I want Dixon, no. Would I take him over Shaka, absolutely.

CDC has been a solid AD for a longtime and I trust he will do what's best for the long term future of the program. While I think Shaka is a joke, I doubt CDC will shell out a ton of money on two buyouts if he doesnt feel he can get the right guy here this year. There are probably a couple of hundred college coaches better than Shaka, but far fewer that make sense at Texas. 

[C-Man 27,286]

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

I think we can do better but the market does suck. 

My point wasn't so much that "Texas can't do better" it's that you don't go blindly into a coaching search just because "X coach sucks".

Case in point softball this offseason. CDC was apparently talking to several coaches behind the scenes (Walton at Florida, White at Oregon, and Torina at LSU). If you're going to fire a coach with that type buyout you better have someone lined up that's better than "ah he's better than Shaka". 

There are myriad coaches out there who would do a better job than Shaka. Hell, if you can't make a "splash" hire go and get somebody and give them a 1-year contract. If he does well, extend him. If the splash hire comes available next year and you want to make a change and can get the guy, do it. I've seen enough well-recruited, poorly-coached basketball to last me for awhile.

[Machinator 32,099]

Just now, C-Man said:

ll, if you can't make a "splash" hire go and get somebody and give them a 1-year contract. If he does well, extend him.

This is not how you run a program. In fact, this is how you run a program into a ground (even more so than it currently is) because a coach on a 1-year contract won't be able to recruit.

Again, the armchair AD take here are bordering on moronic at times.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Machinator

[texasstrong12 4,668]

23 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Sweet Jesus, people, Rick Barnes didn’t have a blow your mind resume when we hired him from Clemson, and he had the most success of any basketball coach in the modern era at Texas.  Acting like we have to poach Coach K in order for the next guy to have potential for great success is ludicrous.

I think evaluation is important and you can find coaches like Barnes that end up having success at the right spot. 

But I always hear that "Texas is a top 10 basketball job". If that's the case we should be swinging for Tony Bennett types and Dixon should be about the 10th choice on our list. 

[C-Man 27,286]

Just now, Machinator said:

This is not how you run a program. In fact, this is how you run a program into a ground (even more so than it currently is) because a coach on a 1-year contract won't be able to recruit.

Again, the armchair AD take here are bordering on moronic at times.

I'm half-kidding, of course. But it's not like the best college players stick around longer than a year or two anyways. I'm much less worried about it affecting recruiting in basketball than in any other sport. But Shaka is just that terrible.

[Machinator 32,099]

Tony Bennett is like Chris Beard in that his style isn't necessarily "fun", but it's effective, and if he didn't win big here he would be taking a bunch of criticism. But I bet he would win big here because he's an awesome coach.

That said, this board would have been in flames if we lost to a 16 seed as the top overall seed in the NCAA tournament.

[ztejas 43,552]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

We fired Barnes for the late-era Barnes years.

Ehhhh idk about that. I find it hard to beleive Barnes would have had a worse 4 year stretch than this had he stayed on.

Obviously the man can still coach.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

I think evaluation is important and you can find coaches like Barnes that end up having success at the right spot. 
But I always hear that "Texas is a top 10 basketball job". If that's the case we should be swinging for Tony Bennett types and Dixon should be about the 10th choice on our list. 

Where do you get that Dixon isn't 10th on our list? This is what you do. You hijack the thread by harping on some incredibly minor issue that nobody is even arguing. Nobody wants Jamie Dixon. The posters who've actually been present and posting here this year have been nominating coaches all season long and ain't nobody calling for Jamie Dixon, but please, keep harping on endlessly about him like it's relevant.


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[Machinator 32,099]

Just now, C-Man said:

I'm half-kidding, of course. But it's not like the best college players stick around longer than a year or two anyways. I'm much less worried about it affecting recruiting in basketball than in any other sport. But Shaka is just that terrible.

I'm not sure an optimal Texas recruiting class should be composed primarily of 1- and 2-year guys, though. It should be something like the 2018 class, where you have three four/five-year guys, a "best of the rest" player who might be here for just two years, and a one-and-done type (although nobody saw Hayes being that at the beginning of the season) to put you over the top.

[idigTexas 2,293]

Can we just get someone whose middle name isn't "Isn't?"

[Goo Punch 4,275]

We hired that guy and then he spent the next 11 years having Texas as a top 10 national program and the second best in the league behind KU. Stop acting like there's any reason not to fire Shaka.


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[Dirk X West 772]

Just now, Machinator said:

Tony Bennett is like Chris Beard in that his style isn't necessarily "fun", but it's effective, and if he didn't win big here he would be taking a bunch of criticism. But I bet he would win big here because he's an awesome coach.

That said, this board would have been in flames if we lost to a 16 seed as the top overall seed in the NCAA tournament.

Yes, no coach is perfect, and there's no coach UT could possibly get (including Beard for the sake of discussion) that would be a 100% guaranteed success in Austin. 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

We should definitely go after Bennett and Jay Wright just to make them say no. 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

4 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Nobody wants Jamie Dixon. 

 

 

There are definitely people in this thread advocating that we fire Shaka even if it means hiring Dixon. 

And yes there are absolutely Texas fans that want to hire Jamie Dixon. I can find tweet after tweet like this. 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by texasstrong12

[dcar00 14,382]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Tony Bennett is like Chris Beard in that his style isn't necessarily "fun", but it's effective, and if he didn't win big here he would be taking a bunch of criticism. But I bet he would win big here because he's an awesome coach.

That said, this board would have been in flames if we lost to a 16 seed as the top overall seed in the NCAA tournament.

sure it would have.  Bennett would be a dream hire but likely unrealistic.  the other Bennett should be on the list as well, along with Williams.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

There have been rumors that Bennett is in play at UCLA. No clue how true they are. 

It could mean Bennett is in play but it could also mean there is going to be serious competition. 

 

[Machinator 32,099]

7 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Yes, no coach is perfect, and there's no coach UT could possibly get (including Beard for the sake of discussion) that would be a 100% guaranteed success in Austin. 

One of the selling points of Shaka was that even if he wasn't immediately successful here, his (hypothetical) up-tempo style of play would put butts in seats. The wins haven't been there, and that's the primary issue, but the product on the court isn't even fun to watch.

That's the (very small) additional risk of a hire like Bennett or Beard. Basketball isn't perceived to be a deliberate, arduous sport by the casual fan, especially when the NBA continues to push the boundaries of what offenses can achieve.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Machinator

[dcar00 14,382]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

 

There are definitely people in this thread advocating that we fire Shaka even if it means hiring Dixon. 

And yes there are absolutely Texas fans that want to hire Jamie Dixon. I can find tweet after tweet like this. 

 

who on this thread said fire shaka even if it means hiring Dixon.  I do see a lot of people saying Dixon is a better coach than shaka,

[dcar00 14,382]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

One of the selling points of Shaka was that even if he wasn't immediately successful here, his (hypothetical) up-tempo style of play would put butts in seats. The wins haven't been there, and that's the primary issue, but the product on the court isn't even fun to watch.

That's the (very small) additional risk of a hire like Bennett or Beard. Basketball isn't perceived to be a deliberate, arduous sport by the casual fan, especially when the NBA continues to push the boundaries of what offenses can achieve.

Bennett would win here no question about it and no one will care the style.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Just now, dcar00 said:

who on this thread said fire shaka even if it means hiring Dixon.  I do see a lot of people saying Dixon is a better coach than shaka,

What started this argument was the idea I should be "excited" about Dixon since he's an upgrade over Shaka. 

People are tying to justify why he would be a decent hire just because Shaka sucks. 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

One of the selling points of Shaka was that even if he wasn't immediately successful here, his (hypothetical) up-tempo style of play would put butts in seats. The wins haven't been there, and that's the primary issue, but the product on the court isn't even fun to watch.

That's the (very small) additional risk of a hire like Bennett or Beard. Basketball isn't perceived to be a deliberate, arduous sport by the casual fan, especially when the NBA continues to push the boundaries of what offenses can achieve.

Bennett's teams win a ton without having to recruit a bunch of one and done/highly touted players and Texas fans will show up for a winner.  Bennett would be amazing here. 

[TXSooner518 2,439]

He definitely doesn't suck. Dixon was a very good coach from '03-'10. The problem is that was eight years ago. 
In the last 8 years he's 67-64 in conference and has lost 17, 9, 10, 15, 12, 15, 12, and likely 14 games this year. 
I would be excited about the Dixon from 8 years ago. Same as I would be about Mack Brown. 
 

Jesus Christ man. TCU was 8-64 in Big 12 games before hiring Dixon, and two seasons before coming to the Big 12 they were 1-15 in the fucking Mountain West. They are 22-32 in Big 12 games with him. They hadn’t made the tourney since the 90s and you’re bitching that he’s only made it once and is a bubble team this year in his 3rd season.

He’s had two seasons in his career without 20 wins and both of those were 19 win seasons. 2 of the 3 seasons he has missed the NCAAT in his career his team won its postseason tourney.

His first season at TCU they had the 2nd most wins in the HISTORY of TCU basketball and you think it was a failure bc he was on the wrong side of the bubble.

[dcar00 14,382]

1 minute ago, texasstrong12 said:

What started this argument was the idea I should be "excited" about Dixon since he's an upgrade over Shaka. 

People are tying to justify why he would be a decent hire just because Shaka sucks. 

missed that.  didn't realize someone said seriously that you should be excited about dixon.

[Machinator 32,099]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

missed that.  didn't realize someone said seriously that you should be excited about dixon.

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/99-fire-shaka-smart/&do=findComment&comment=1107167

 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

"people are trying to justify". no, one guy said one thing and now the entire thread has turned into a tangential debate about shitty a hire he would be. like clockwork.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/99-fire-shaka-smart/&do=findComment&comment=1107167

 

it isn't the "hiring jamie dixon" part gbag excites anyone. 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

14 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

 

Jesus Christ man. TCU was 8-64 in Big 12 games before hiring Dixon, and two seasons before coming to the Big 12 they were 1-15 in the fucking Mountain West. They are 22-32 in Big 12 games with him. They hadn’t made the tourney since the 90s and you’re bitching that he’s only made it once and is a bubble team this year in his 3rd season.

He’s had two seasons in his career without 20 wins and both of those were 19 win seasons. 2 of the 3 seasons he has missed the NCAAT in his career his team won its postseason tourney.

His first season at TCU they had the 2nd most wins in the HISTORY of TCU basketball and you think it was a failure bc he was on the wrong side of the bubble.

 

Yeah, he's done a decent job at TCU just because TCU has little to no history. My issue is the last 5 years at Pitt were also meh. 

Texas is trying to find a coach that wins big not a coach that's made a historical bottom dweller into a tournament team 1/3 years. Perception is strongly skewed towards coaches that take shit teams and just make them into decent teams. That doesn't get me excited. Sorry. 

You can play the "context" game with a lot of tier 2/tier 3 type hires out there but bottom line is Dixon has lost over 12 games a year for nearly a decade. Again, I'm not saying he's a trash coach. There are just a lot better options out there and if Dixon is anywhere close to our top choice than the Texas job isn't nearly as good as we want to believe it is. 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by texasstrong12

[dcar00 14,382]

oh dr. beeper said it...context is everything.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

tourney team:




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[TxTower 652]

please please please let this be Shaka's Kansas, please.

We get Kansas in the B12T opening round. That will be his Kansas.


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[dcar00 14,382]

Just now, TxTower said:

We get Kansas in the B12T opening round. That will be his Kansas.


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the strange thing is a loss to KU shouldn't hurt us even if it puts us at 16-16.  Lunardi doesn't even have us on the last 4 in.

[Pancho 45,105]

Nsip

 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

3 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

Nsip

 

 

[Machinator 32,099]

6 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

Nsip

 

I would love to eat crow and be told my expectations were too low. I will be the first to show up and subject myself to the "I told you sos" from the dozens of people here saying that he's gone (yes, even Greenspoint) if we pull the plug after whatever shitty result concludes the season.

But CDC is not a magician.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Machinator

[GreenspointTexas 9,689]

7 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

Nsip

 

No colonel sanders, youre wrong. Missing the tourney 2 times in 4 years he’d have to be a goner

Edited March 9, 2019 by GreenspointTexas

[Wally Pryor 5,263]

Every day I think I can't hate Patterson more I'm awakened to greater depths of dislike.

[lemonandaturd 4,285]

Shitty coaches are not our standard.  Money issues may get him one more year, but that will be it.  Rick Barnes> Abe Lemons> Tom Penders>  Shaka Smart >Bob Wetlich.  We fucked up with this hire.  Let's move on.  

[Gut Wagon 8,087]

I'm not sure who I want as our coach. I just know there's one guy I don't want. Unfortunately, he's the one we have. 

[NowThis 931]

what's his annual salary and what is the buyout? Should be the same for a 1 year balance , no?

[Machinator 32,099]

4 minutes ago, NowThis said:

what's his annual salary and what is the buyout? Should be the same for a 1 year balance , no?

$12.9M buyout

[texasstrong12 4,668]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Because that’s an absolute no brainer.  Don’t forget all Dixon commentary is in response to your idiotic Dixon takes, and you initiated Dixon talk. 

@Goo Punch told you there were people that wanted to hire Dixon. 

FYI my Dixon takes aren't just about his overall record these last 8 years it's also based on what has happened at TCU. Handling good recruiting classes is a different animal than taking over shit rosters and making them into decent teams. 

People have constantly bitched about the attrition with Shaka and rightfully so. 

Go see what happened with Alok, Archie, Mcwilliam, and Fisher (granted injury related). Dixon hasn't had success managing talented recruits. Most have transferred. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Rockethorn1978 6,109]

35 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

Nsip

 

I said this a few weeks ago, my two program insiders told me this. I really hope cdc plays things super close to the vest and doesn’t let stuff leak out.

[TreatyOak 16,434]

56 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

What started this argument was the idea I should be "excited" about Dixon since he's an upgrade over Shaka. 

People are tying to justify why he would be a decent hire just because Shaka sucks. 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Is he in my Top 3?  Top 5?  No and no. Is he Top 10?  

If we fire Shaka and he ends being the 8th or so guy we interview and ultimately hire, did we make a mistake?  Fuck no. 

If you were hiring somebody and it was your 8th choice would you consider that a good hire? 

Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't think this is how CDC operates at all. He's never going to be in the position where he has to settle for his 8th choice. If he fires Shaka it's going to be because he has one of his top choices lined up ready to hire. 

There was a frog fan on Shaggy that talked a lot about CDC's methodical approach to firing and hiring coaches. I think he posts on here but can't remember his name. Maybe he can chime in. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by texasstrong12

[texasstrong12 4,668]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

It’s not a good hire in a vacuum. It is a good hire in that you’ve drastically improved your HC and Shaka Smart isn’t here failing. 

This is where we will agree to disagree and for the record I think Dixon > Shaka. 

If the decision is to "just make a better hire than Shaka" we're going at this all wrong. We've gone from wanting to win big to just "don't suck like Shaka".