Fire Shaka Smart

[Dbeasy 14931]

We hired that guy and then he spent the next 11 years having Texas as a top 10 national program and the second best in the league behind KU. Stop acting like there's any reason not to fire Shaka.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For some reason I remember thinking he was a really good coach at the time of hire, yet those records aren’t all that great. Interesting.

[perfectchaos007 6574]

 You know if we hadnt fired Rick Barnes we would be looking at Rick Barnes LOL 

[Dbeasy 14931]

 You know if we hadnt fired Rick Barnes we would be looking at Rick Barnes LOL 

So...would you take him back?

[perfectchaos007 6574]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

So...would you take him back?

 

 That’s a tough one. But the fact that I’m not “hell no!”  Says something about where our program is right now

[texasstrong12 4668]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

You keep moving the goal posts. I think it’s clear you supported Shaka strongly and you’re flailing walking that back now that it’s clear he sucks. 

I supported Shaka getting 4 years as I do with any coach.

I wasn't sold on Shaka because of his gimmicky system and only one tournament run. So much so that I got shit for trashing on Shaka much like I have with Dixon here. I wanted Archie Miller (who has been somewhat of a failure at Indiana) or Greg Marshall (who I'm still not sure how good of a fit he would be). 

I made the same arguments on OB/Hornsports about firing Barnes as I did with Shaka here. "Firing X coach simply because they suck" isn't always the right move if there isn't a top tier coach available. 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by texasstrong12

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, Dr. Beeper said:

Yeah don’t care

Yet you keep responding. 

[Tired Horn 734]

I wonder what it must feel like to be a human poison pill? To know you make so much guaranteed money that they can't afford to fire you? 

Must be nice.

Me, I'd feel grateful enough that I'd at least try to put a product on the court someone might actually want to watch.  

[C-Man 26930]

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

If you were hiring somebody and it was your 8th choice would you consider that a good hire? 

Where would hiring Shaka -- if that were even possible -- be for you? 8th choice? 18th choice? 80th choice?

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

This is where we will agree to disagree and for the record I think Dixon > Shaka. 

If the decision is to "just make a better hire than Shaka" we're going at this all wrong. We've gone from wanting to win big to just "don't suck like Shaka". 

 

When have we ever won "big"? That one time way back in 2003 when we made the Final Four?

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Where would hiring Shaka -- if that were even possible -- be for you? 8th choice? 18th choice? 80th choice?

When have we ever won "big"? That one time way back in 2003 when we made the Final Four?

I don't know, but CDC says he wants top 10 programs across the board.

[C-Man 26930]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I don't know, but CDC says he wants top 10 programs across the board.

That's great and all but right now we're barely Top 10 in a 10-team conference

[texasstrong12 4668]

7 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Where would hiring Shaka -- if that were even possible -- be for you? 8th choice? 18th choice? 80th choice?

When have we ever won "big"? That one time way back in 2003 when we made the Final Four?

1) No clue. I probably viewed Shaka as the 4th or 5th best option when we fired Barnes but that's obviously changed since then. I would have taken several coaches over Shaka after we fired Barnes. 

2) We've never won big so maybe that should change expectations of the program. That's kind of my point. Dixon isn't the type hire you make if you're a program that wins big. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by texasstrong12

[C-Man 26930]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

1) No clue. I probably viewed Shaka as the 4th or 5th best option when we fired Barnes but that's obviously changed since then. I would have taken several coaches over Shaka after we fired Barnes. 

2) We've never won big so maybe that should change expectations of the program. That's kind of my point. Dixon isn't the type hire you make if you're a program that wins big. 

For like the 100th time, I don't think Jamie Dixon is near the top of anybody's list.

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, C-Man said:

For like the 100th time, I don't think Jamie Dixon is near the top of anybody's list.

yeah, I know. I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that some of the names listed here don't exactly scream "winning big" when reality is we've never won big. Like you said. 

[Machinator 32097]

8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

1) No clue. I probably viewed Shaka as the 4th or 5th best option when we fired Barnes but that's obviously changed since then. I would have taken several coaches over Shaka after we fired Barnes. 

2) We've never won big so maybe that should change expectations of the program. That's kind of my point. Dixon isn't the type hire you make if you're a program that wins big. 

For fuck's sake dude, stop talking about Dixon. Period. End of story. Move on.

I don't care who started it.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Machinator

[Mo Horn 8779]

If you want to break the bank then I'll take Beard. If not I'll take Hoiberg.

[C-Man 26930]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

yeah, I know. I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that some of the names listed here don't exactly scream "winning big" when reality is we've never won big. Like you said. 

And I guess the idea of spending $13M doesn't sound super appealing unless you've got Beard or something like that teed up.

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

For fuck's sake dude, stop talking about Dixon. Period. End of story. Move on.

I don't care who started it.

Fair enough but it's a thread where we're talking about firing Shaka. What do you expect? It's a discussion about possible replacements. 

That's why these threads exist. Personally, I enjoy the conversation and back and forth. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by texasstrong12

[The Golden Hat 299]

I think you've hit your quota on this thread

[Goo Punch 4275]

27 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

If you want to break the bank then I'll take Beard. If not I'll take Hoiberg.

Beard, Hoiberg, Bennett, and Wright should all be pursued with everything we have. There's probably a 5% chance at best that we get one of them to come to Texas, but still. After that just give me Buzz, Musselman, Prohm, Howland, Cronin, or yes, even Dixon if it means getting rid of Shaka. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Goo Punch

[HtownHorn 14395]

If the buyout is really an issue, just reassign his ass in the AD and tell him to work from home.

[closetojumping 62033]

25 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Fair enough but it's a thread where we're talking about firing Shaka. What do you expect? It's a discussion about possible replacements. 

That's why these threads exist. Personally, I enjoy the conversation and back and forth. 

I propose a continued neg-bombing of your posts across all boards if you carry the Dixon shit forward at all. You’ve buttfucked this thread for 3 pages. Fuck off with “I enjoy the conversation and back and forth. “

You’ve been obstinate, and you’ve been a prick about Smart for years. I couldn’t believe our good fortune in hiring the guy as a layman fan. I got off of that years ago and so have many others. You’ve continued with your fucking bullshit right up to now. Fuck you. 

[Brian Fantana 6652]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

If the buyout is really an issue, just reassign his ass in the AD and tell him to work from home.

Yeah that'll really get a potential incoming coach excited about the program.

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

You’ve been obstinate, and you’ve been a prick about Smart for years. 

I probably was and I've admitted as much. 

But you calling anyone a "prick" is certainly rich. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by texasstrong12

[closetojumping 62033]

1 minute ago, texasstrong12 said:

I probably was and I've admitted as much. 

But you calling anyone a "prick" is certainly rich. 

I haven’t been called a prick in years. A motherfucker? Sure. Insufferable? Sure. Arrogant? Check. Fuckface? Yeah. Sonofabitch? Right. Dumbass? Fine. But not a prick. You’ve been a prick here. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

15 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I haven’t been called a prick in years. A motherfucker? Sure. Insufferable? Sure. Arrogant? Check. Fuckface? Yeah. Sonofabitch? Right. Dumbass? Fine. But not a prick. You’ve been a prick here. 

You're a prick to anyone that disagrees with your position in recruiting. Saying otherwise is just a flat out lie and several people would tell you that if they were being honest.  This is literally your reputation among people in Texas recruiting circles (almost every 9.95er describes you as a "dick"). 

But I do agree I  had some "prickish" moments when discussing Shaka and I went over the top with the Dixon stuff. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Machinator 32097]

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah that'll really get a potential incoming coach excited about the program.

Like I said, we have some real idiots on this board who fashion themselves ADs.

CDC will find a way to get it done, but not at the expense of institutional dignity.

[Vito Andolini 9067]

3 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Beard, Hoiberg, Bennett, and Wright should all pursuer with everything we have. There's probably a 5% at best that we get one of them,  it still. After that just give me Buzz, Musselman, Prohm, Cronin, or yes, even Dixon if it means getting rid of Shaka. 

Just taking the first four names, Beard has proven he can coach, but wouldn’t the $19.1 million buyout (or was that before the season, nonetheless, a massive amount) make him practically untouchable, especially considering the Smart $12.9? 

Despite the shitshow in the first round last year, I would be extremely happy to have a coach good enough to have built a team capable of being labeled an overall #1 seed. Yes, the fuckup was enormous, but Bennett would be a home run.

I see Wright as an east coast guy, and don’t really see him being that interested. Could be wrong, Austin may be inticing.

i’m saving Hoiberg for last because I find him the most intriguing. Just a few years ago, he was the coaching golden boy. Is there a stink left over from the poor NBA experience? Could be a good thing, because he can’t be holding out for another shot at the pros, could he? And since he’s on the beach, I’m assuming there’s no additional cost involved in hiring him. Does Austin need a new Mayor?

 

[Dbeasy 14931]

I haven’t been called a prick in years. A motherfucker? Sure. Insufferable? Sure. Arrogant? Check. Fuckface? Yeah. Sonofabitch? Right. Dumbass? Fine. But not a prick. You’ve been a prick here. 

Prick.

[Wally Pryor 5236]

A $13MM buyout for this fraud seems steep, and it is. 

But Del Conte seems to be able to print money so if he wants a change, it will happen sooner, rather than later. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

so we use this buyout as an excuse not to fire him and a year from now the FEC is somehow even emptier then it's been all year this year, fan interest is at an all time low, Texas sucks for a fourth straight season, opppsing coaches use negative recruiting against us and we aren't even desirable anyway, and this somehow is seen as financially responsible...

 

OR

 

we spend the money, cut our losses, bring in an actual living, breathing D-1 head coach, he inherits Andrew Jones and Courtney Ramey (maybe we hire this guy ASAP sand he talks Hayes into staying?), the team is massively improved, CDC is pumping out the game day promotions, fan interest is on the rise, Texas is back in the top half of the league and flirting with 20 wins (i mean if Hayes and AJ1 are both back we could *easily* be a sweet 16 team), back in the tournament, and one year from now the program has life again.

somekne explain to me how the first scenario is some safe financial move when we only save like $2-$3M if we wait one more year anyway (right?). i don't get that. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Vito Andolini 9067]

Yeah, I don’t get the argument that delaying the inevitable is smart financially (no pun), since it’s all guaranteed money, and that $12.9 million will be paid. You’ve just added another (likely) shitty season on the books by keeping Smart, and delaying the future by a year.

[texasstrong12 4668]

34 minutes ago, Vito Andolini said:

Despite the shitshow in the first round last year, I would be extremely happy to have a coach good enough to have built a team capable of being labeled an overall #1 seed. Yes, the fuckup was enormous, but Bennett would be a home run.

 

Bennett has the most impressive resume out of the group discussed here. Even at Washington State he had success. A team that hasn't made the tournament in 10 years since he left.

He's also relatively young at 49. That's the biggest thing that shocked me with Bennett. I always viewed him as an older coach but he's not that old given his success so far. 

Beyond the early tournament exits this is impressive. 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Bottlecap 1519]

make billy donovan say no

[NowThis 931]

6 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

so that they can be burned to keep all of the homeless children warm.

wearing them will keep them warm. Besides, it's Haiti which is hot as fuck.

[GreenspointTexas 9546]

48 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

so we use this buyout as an excuse not to fire him and a year from now the FEC is somehow even emptier then it's been all year this year, fan interest is at an all time low, Texas sucks for a fourth straight season, opppsing coaches use negative recruiting against us and we aren't even desirable anyway, and this somehow is seen as financially responsible...

 

OR

 

we spend the money, cut our losses, bring in an actual living, breathing D-1 head coach, he inherits Andrew Jones and Courtney Ramey (maybe we hire this guy ASAP sand he talks Hayes into staying?), the team is massively improved, CDC is pumping out the game day promotions, fan interest is on the rise, Texas is back in the top half of the league and flirting with 20 wins (i mean if Hayes and AJ1 are both back we could *easily* be a sweet 16 team), back in the tournament, and one year from now the program has life again.

somekne explain to me how the first scenario is some safe financial move when we only save like $2-$3M if we wait one more year anyway (right?). i don't get that. 

Hate to say it, but....

 

/thread

[Pancho 44183]

Another writer who typically knows stuff....

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

"another chance to prove those who believed in him right."

HOW?!?!

Like, what can do next year to "prove himself"? we finna win 27 games, go 15-3 in the league and make a run to the Final Four? What in the fuck is he going to do next year to prove that he's a good coach when everything he's done the last ten years proves that he's not a good coach??

Edited March 10, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Machinator 32097]

If Shaka returns, I would set expectations (as an AD) for a top 3 finish in the league, at least 25 wins, and at minimum a Sweet 16 appearance in the NCAA tournament based on a seed line in the 3-4 range. If you fall short in the NCAAs, you better win the conference or come damn near close.

In reality, if Shaka returns, I figure we'll win something like 18 games, make it as a 9-11ish seed, and max out at the round of 32, and he'll be fired.

Something to keep in mind is that if we bring in a new coach, even though the roster right now sets up to be a contender, there will be attrition and bumps in the road due to system/culture changes, which lowers the ceiling slightly. That's fine if it sets us up for more success in the long run.

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

I'm half-kidding, of course. But it's not like the best college players stick around longer than a year or two anyways. I'm much less worried about it affecting recruiting in basketball than in any other sport. But Shaka is just that terrible.

Can you even name the players on the team without looking it up?

[texasstrong12 4668]

24 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Something to keep in mind is that if we bring in a new coach, even though the roster right now sets up to be a contender, there will be attrition and bumps in the road due to system/culture changes, which lowers the ceiling slightly. That's fine if it sets us up for more success in the long run.

I would be interested to see what happens in terms of attrition. Strong sucked but it did seem like the players loved him. 

There were absolutely players that bounced with Herman simply because they were pissed Strong was fired. I don't get that vibe with Shaka. Not saying the players hate him but there doesn't seem to be the same emotion in play here as Strong. 

I'm more worried about the recruiting class but I guess coaching ability should be prioritized over a couple recruits. Regardless of when Shaka is fired getting Baker, Kai Jones and Williams on campus would be significant. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

Beard, Hoiberg, Bennett, and Wright should all be pursued with everything we have. There's probably a 5% chance at best that we get one of them to come to Texas, but still. After that just give me Buzz, Musselman, Prohm, Howland, Cronin, or yes, even Dixon if it means getting rid of Shaka. 

I'd take Howland over everyone not named Bennett and Wright. Hoiberg after that partially because I don't think he's interested in coaching college ball.

[Surly Bevo 24686]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

I would be interested to see what happens in terms of attrition. Strong sucked but it did seem like the players loved him. 

I think there were absolutely players that bounced with Herman simply because they were pissed Strong was fired. I don't get that vibe with Shaka. Not saying the players hate him but there doesn't seem to be the same emotion in play here as Strong. 

I'm more worried about the recruiting class but I guess coaching ability should be prioritized over a couple recruits. 

Players bounced from Herman because Strong coddled them.  Not in the same way Mack had become soft because the word on Mack was always that he could be a real SOB when he had to be, but Chuck was too much of a "friend/father" to a lot of them.  Tom rolled in and said "fuck you I'm here to win now eat this burnt toast you pansy fuck".

Edited March 10, 2019 by Surly Bevo

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

Players bounced from Herman because Strong coddled them.  Not in the same way Mack had become soft because the word on Mack was always that he could be a real SOB when he had to be, but Chuck was too much of a "friend/father" to a lot of them.  Tom rolled in and said "fuck you I'm here to win now eat this burnt toast you pansy fuck".

Good thing Shaka doesn't try to buddy up with his players or anything, then.

Having said that, plenty of people criticized Tom for his tough guy act in 2017. It was only when he started winning that it all went away.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Machinator

[Surly Bevo 24686]

Just now, Machinator said:

Good thing Shaka doesn't try to buddy up with his players or anything, then.

Don't take any of what I said as support of Shaka, that fucker should have been left in about 6 different parking lots this year....

[Machinator 32097]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Don't take any of what I said as support of Shaka, that fucker should have been left in about 6 different parking lots this year....

I'm not. But depending on whom we hire, we could see some players take the same route when they realize their coach isn't their buddy anymore.

 

And that's fine, if we hire a good coach.

[Surly Bevo 24686]

Just now, Machinator said:

I'm not. But depending on whom we hire, we could see some players take the same route when they realize their coach isn't their buddy anymore.

 

And that's fine, if we hire a good coach.

Agreed

[dcar00 14002]

57 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

Another writer who typically knows stuff....

 

I appreciate he has a job to do but he couldn't be more wrong.  BS sappy article. he didn't overacheive with Barnes players he under achieved.   The guy is stealing money at this point.  all UNC and KU show is that he has enough good players to not be anywhere close to 16 and 16.  nothing will change next year.

when his players aren't having one of their all too infrequent games of good shooting he has no answers.  he's a fraud.  very good recruiter but a fraud in every other sense as a coach. 

Coleman was killing TCU and Dixon adjusted.  Bane scored half of TCU's points and we never adjusted to try to take him out of the game.

game set match - he can't be gone soon enough.  its embarrassing at this point. we were fleeced. 

[PittsburghTiger 6129]

6 hours ago, Machinator said:

@PittsburghTiger, why did Dixon falter at Pitt?

 

6 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Do you have any idea what Dixon did to turn around TCU? And he had the best 2-3 seasons Pitt has had in past 20 years.  

Dixon is a really good coach that has coached at mediocre to poor programs and made them better than they have historically been (granted, Pitt has had some good teams historically, but Dixon has the most consistency there until they fucked up and moved to the ACC).  

He’s one of the best four overall coaches in the Big XII, easy. 

Perhaps Texas is too big of a program for him. I’ll listen to that.  But he is an excellent coach. 

 

5 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

He definitely doesn't suck. Dixon was a very good coach from '03-'10. The problem is that was eight years ago. 

In the last 8 years he's 67-64 in conference and has lost 17, 9, 10, 15, 12, 15, 12, and likely 14 games this year. 

I would be excited about the Dixon from 8 years ago. Same as I would be about Mack Brown. 

 

I will preface any comments by first saying that I really liked Jamie. I knew him a little bit, enough to stand and talk to him and have a conversation. As much as fans really can know a coach in today's world.

There really was no option for Pitt, other than joining the ACC. Otherwise Pitt would be stuck, like UConn & Cincy, in the AAC.

The Big East was done. It could not survive in the manner into which it had turned with Football-Also schools dominating the basketball side. I think the number is about 16 of the final 18 Big East Tourneys, before the split, were won by Football-Also schools - Pitt, Louisville, WVU, BC, UConn & Syracuse. From 1996 to 2013 only St. John's (led by Ronny Artest in 2000) & Georgetown (led by Jeff Green in 2007) have won the BET as old time Big East schools. Villanova has won three BET since the split. Before that you have to go back to 1995 for their previous title.

Ben Howland set in motion the program that Jamie helped take to nights not ever seen. Nobody disputes that. But recruiting had started to slide, dramatically. Jamie's recruiting changed, he started recruiting certain types of players, going after the higher recruits like Khem Birch and Steven Adams. But Jamie's best season as an ACC coach was without those types of players. It was with players who helped Pitt go 12-6 in the Big East in 2012-13 and then 11-7 in the ACC in 2013-14.

Jamie's teams pretty much dominated Syracuse. His teams shredded the 2/3 zone. 

I don't think it is a secret that Jamie didn't want to go to the ACC, same as Jimmy Boeheim, but the Big East was no longer an option. The Big East run was incredible, but it was done. 

We were basically Virginia under Bennett before Bennett got to Virginia. We were not too exciting on offense but we'd make it extremely hard for you to score, and it'd be physical basketball.

One of the things that bothered many of us is that every time there was a job opening west of the Mississippi Jamie's name was brought up, most likely by his agent. And he was extended and given more money.

Well, after Pitt lost to, I think Wisconsin, three days later Jamie took the TCU job. I don't for a second believe that there was not contact between either him, or his agent, before Pitt's season was finished. In that NCAA Tourney Jamie was about the seventh highest-paid coach, but the results were not there.

As others have said Jamie's teams have not fared well in conference play for nigh on a decade. In Jamie's final 30, or 25, games against ranked opponents Pitt was around 5-25, or 5-20. The results were not there. People did not like his choice of assistants. Perhaps now we see that he doesn't pick them well, or maybe he picks them too well, we shall see.

Pitt fans basically divide things as Dixon1, and Dixon2. Dixon1 was awesome. Dixon2 was a continual and frustrating slide. And with how much money is floating around Dallas-Fort Worth, and with how the investigation seems to be going, I don't doubt that someone has had a hand in bringing these much higher recruits to TCU, and I don't mean Jamie.

[dcar00 14002]

I know he's older but what about Altman at Oregon?

[El Squared 1792]

Why would any reasonable person expect Shaka year 5 to be a breakout year ?

Buyout motive is buyout motive but what indicators are there for a great career saving season for him at this point?