Fire Shaka Smart

[ztejas 43504]

14 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

I'm not naive about anything.  I understand that UT is an insanely wealthy athletic dept. that has some individual programs that have been historically very successful, among the very best in college sports.  Men's basketball is not one of them.  I got two graduate degrees at UT-Austin, have lived here for 20+ years and have worked on campus now for 7 years.  I see it up close, and I have loads of friends here who are alums and are huge UT fans.  The reality of UT sports is not the same as the myth.  It's just not.  I know you all are fans and believe in your school, but you seem to think you can have any coach you want.  You can't.  The reality of who you've been hiring in football, just to name the biggest, wealthiest, most important individual program, bears that out.  

This is a stupid fucking take and I am not a UT grad or someone that  identifies with the university outside of family connections. I think a lot of UT fans/grads have unrealistic expectations and at times an inflated sense of worth (shit, including myself when it comes to the football team which I am a diehard fan of), but to say "the reality isn't the same as the myth" isn't a good way to phrase that. 

The reality is that Texas is a phenomenal school in a great city with a huge, wealthy alumni network that can basically out-fund any athletic department in the country. 

No, UT basketball is not historically on par with their football and baseball programs, but it is still probably a top 15 job in the country. And basketball is probably the ONLY sport where UT isn't a top 5-10 job in the country. 

In terms of a head coaching JOB:

Football is top 5 at worst.

Swimming is top 2-3 at worst. 

Baseball is top 2-3 at worst. 

Golf is top 2-3 at worst. 

Tennis (lol) probably top 10 at worst.

Women's volleyball top 2-3 at worst. 

Women's bball top 10-12 at worst. 

Women's softball top 5-10 at worst.

So if UT fans "seem to think they can have any coach they want" it's because they pretty much fucking can. That's the REALITY of the situation. 

Yes, basketball is a little different for various reasons, but it's not that different. 

 

[Dirk X West 772]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Shag said:

I find it telling that as a guy who has lived in Austin 20+ years, got two graduate degrees, and has worked on campus for seven years, not once did you ever refer to UT as "my" school or "our" school and seem largely ambivalent if not derisive about the University, in general.

When have we not gotten who we wanted?  Patterson wanted Charlie, as dumb as his ass was, and got him.  Same with Shaka.  We wanted Herman, and got him.

So unless you've got Saban in mind and bought into that entire line of drama, I'm unsure where you're coming from on this front, and you used a poor example to try and convey the idea that we can't get who we want.

UT is my school, in just about every way, except as a sports fan.  I grew up partly in Odessa and partly in Lubbock in a family of Tech fans, and that doesn't wash off, for good or for bad.  I cheer for UT except when they play Tech, but Tech is in my blood in a different way.  My friends and family, however, think I'm "burnt orange through and through".

As far as the coaching part, what I'm saying is while UT fans believe they can have any coach they want, the reality is, UT has never had a football coach - much less a basketball coach - in my years as a fan (so since the mid '80s) that would've been considered a coach like not only Saban, but even like Urban Meyer, a guy that other schools dream of having.  Mack Brown might have been pretty close, but David McWilliams, John Mackovic, Charlie Strong?  Similarly, Barnes was close at his peak, but outside of him?  I realize that y'all probably think this is a pattern of bad hiring, but to me, reality is the thing.  I know the reality of Tech sports.  I'm good with it.  Humility is good. 

[Dirk X West 772]

7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This is a stupid fucking take and I am not a UT grad or someone that  identifies with the university outside of family connections. I think a lot of UT fans/grads have unrealistic expectations and at times an inflated sense of worth (shit, including myself when it comes to the football team which I am a diehard fan of), but to say "the reality isn't the same as the myth" isn't a good way to phrase that. 

The reality is that Texas is a phenomenal school in a great city with a huge, wealthy alumni network that can basically out-fund any athletic department in the country. 

Yes, UT is absolutely what you said.  I love it; I'm glad to live here and work here.  But, you don't see any downside to being a coach here, at all?  I think actual coaches would tell you there is.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

As far as the coaching part, what I'm saying is while UT fans believe they can have any coach they want, the reality is, UT has never had a football coach - much less a basketball coach - in my years as a fan (so since the mid '80s) that would've been considered a coach like not only Saban, but even like Urban Meyer, a guy that other schools dream of having. 

So your threshold for the kind of coach we should have are literally the two best coaches of the modern era? If we hire someone who doesn't favorably compare to a guy with six national titles or a guy who's won 85% of his games, that proves... what?

I appreciate that you're patiently responding but I don't think your point makes as much sense outside of your head as in (this is a feeling I know well). 

[LTtxfan 49304]

Wake Forest, please take Shaka......

Wake Forest lost to Miami in 1st Rd ACC Tourney

Miami 79 ......... Wake Forest 71

WF Record  11-20.   Conf  4-14

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26137104/fixing-men-hoops-priority-new-wake-ad

Coach Danny Manning is 65-90 overall and 24-64 in Atlantic Coast Conference play with one NCAA tournament appearance in five seasons.  The Demon Deacons (11-20, 4-14) just finished their seventh losing season since 2010 -- also the last year they finished above .500 in the league.  Nearly half of Manning's losses here (44) have come by double figures. Of the 20 losses this season, nine have been by at least 20 points. That includes the worst loss in the three-decade history of Joel Coliseum -- a 95-57 setback to North Carolina last month -- but doesn't include head-scratching home defeats by Houston Baptist and Gardner-Webb that, at least, were close. 

This year's team entered Monday night's games ranked last in the league in seven major stat categories, including scoring defense, scoring margin, shooting percentage, shooting percentage allowed and assist-to-turnover ratio.

Edited March 13, 2019 by LTtxfan

[Dirk X West 772]

1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

So your threshold for the kind of coach we should have are literally the two best coaches of the modern era? If we hire someone who doesn't favorably compare to a guy with six national titles or a guy who's won 85% of his games, that proves... what?

I appreciate that you're patiently responding but I don't think your point makes as much sense outside of your head as in (this is a feeling I know well). 

No, I'm saying if UT is a top 5, even a top 1 or 2 program, in almost every sport, shouldn't UT have one of the best 2 or 5 coaches in the country most of the time in most sports?

[MAUFRAIS 6630]

You’re showing us not stealing a football coach from Alabama or Ohio state and saying that proves we couldn’t steal one from tech? Do you really think y’all are closer to that than cougar high or Louisville?

It’s a good bet on your part, because the odds are we don’t hire him and whatever the reason is you can be smug that your down home salt of the earth upbringing won out over the inflated self worth of the capital city (where, oh by the way, you’ve been totally accepted and you thrive and are a huge success, you’re just too true to your roots to forsake who you are down deep).

[Brian Fantana 6689]

This is the worst argument of all time

[Machinator 32099]

I think there's a difference between thinking we can hire the best coach out there (K, Beilein, Roy, Self, Few, Izzo + the proven guys who have been in the NBA such as Donovan and Stevens) and thinking we can land the one of the best available candidates.

There is a small, delusional contingent of Texas fans who think we can money whip someone from category one, but most people are looking at category 2.

[Dirk X West 772]

1 minute ago, MAUFRAIS said:

You’re showing us not stealing a football coach from Alabama or Ohio state and saying that proves we couldn’t steal one from tech? Do you really think y’all are closer to that than cougar high or Louisville?

It’s a good bet on your part, because the odds are we don’t hire him and whatever the reason is you can be smug that your down home salt of the earth upbringing won out over the inflated self worth of the capital city (where, oh by the way, you’ve been totally accepted and you thrive and are a huge success, you’re just too true to your roots to forsake who you are down deep).

You're not getting what I'm saying.  I love Austin and kinda hate Lubbock.  I'm moved here as soon as I could, and I love it.  I also love the university, as an institution.  Loving Austin is about a lot more than just whether I cheer for UT versus Tech, though.   Again, though, as I said in my last comment, it seems like so many of you don't seem to realize that, even with the facilities and the money and the history, everything is not 100% great here, and also, there are great things about other places too.  If it was only about money and facilities, UT would win every 99% of all games in all sports, but there's more to it than that. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Shaka turned down UCLA but accepted the Texas offer; Barnes turned down Kentucky to stay at Texas. Replace "Texas" with "Texas Tech" and those things never happen. That says more about where our basketball program is job-offer wise than any hypothetical argument about who we could or couldn't get. 

[kingkoopa6 8372]

On 3/11/2019 at 9:52 AM, suddenly shaggy said:

I hope aggy doesn't get Buzz.

I liked Buzz. 

I still like Buzz. 

I'm down for some Buzz.. fr fr 

[Dirk X West 772]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

Shaka turned down UCLA but accepted the Texas offer; Barnes turned down Kentucky to stay at Texas. Replace "Texas" with "Texas Tech" and those things never happen. That says more about where our basketball program is job-offer wise than any hypothetical argument about who we could or couldn't get. 

I don't think Tech could pull any coach away from a bigger program.  I never said they could, though Beard did leave UNLV for Tech.  Beard is Beard, though.  He's not an abstraction or a hypothetical.  He wants to be at Tech, and he's a good coach.  Again, I know that for most of you, the only way this adds up is to see him as an up and comer and who's only gonna be at Tech until a bigger job comes along, because "that's how coaches are".  Reality is more complicated than that, however.

[Red Five 40875]

We didn’t hire Saban because we didn’t offer him the job.

[Ghost of Shag 2614]

I'm not trying to pile on, it's just that your premise is faulty.

You say, "We can't have whoever we want," but we HAVE gotten whoever we've wanted.

Pointing to each coach's success/lack thereof doesn't support your premise.  We're not arguing who have been the most successful coaches in history.  We're arguing who we wanted to get at the time, and whether or not we got them.  

Beard might very well be a different story.  I just think it's naïve to think he'd absolutely turn us down.  

Edited March 13, 2019 by Ghost of Shag

[jimmyjazz 45992]

1 hour ago, Dirk X West said:

No, I'm saying if UT is a top 5, even a top 1 or 2 program, in almost every sport, shouldn't UT have one of the best 2 or 5 coaches in the country most of the time in most sports?

I think you're ignoring the fact that, idiot fans aside, UT's administration was never going to offer Nick Saban or Urban Meyer.  For better or worse, there are standards here, and those guys get way too close to the edge.  Tom Herman is probably as close to that kind of guy that UT would consider.

[jimmyjazz 45992]

1 hour ago, Dirk X West said:

I don't think Tech could pull any coach away from a bigger program.  I never said they could, though Beard did leave UNLV for Tech.  Beard is Beard, though.  He's not an abstraction or a hypothetical.  He wants to be at Tech, and he's a good coach. 

He also had his choice of Tech or UT when he was 18 years old.  Apparently, UT won out in his mind.  Are you really sure UT couldn't win out again?

It's a silly argument, regardless.  If Shaka gets fired, and if Texas decides Beard is our top target, then let's see how it plays out.  Best case for him, he'd be one of a handful of guys in the discussion.  There's a good chance he wouldn't be in the discussion at all.

[Dirk X West 772]

31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

He also had his choice of Tech or UT when he was 18 years old.  Apparently, UT won out in his mind.  Are you really sure UT couldn't win out again?

It's a silly argument, regardless.  If Shaka gets fired, and if Texas decides Beard is our top target, then let's see how it plays out.  Best case for him, he'd be one of a handful of guys in the discussion.  There's a good chance he wouldn't be in the discussion at all.

Look, I'm not saying there's no chance he'd ever take the UT job; I'm just disputing the notion that, leaving aside the issue of buyouts for him and Shaka, he'd absolutely come to UT if UT wanted him.  And I fully expect that if UT is interested and he stays at Tech, many here would say "UT didn't really want him".  That's how it go.

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Dirk X West

[Revolution512 1491]

You’re smack talking, message board points are weak as fuck. Tadlock? Really? That’s seen as a whiff and a comparable situation to you? Hell he “pulled his name” 10 days after Texas interviewed Pierce. If Pierce was so far down the list, where does that put Tadlock?

I’ll give Tech this, they get coaches to agree to great contracts. That’s the way it should be. Who gives a fuck what Texas fans think if Beard stays? Dude, grow up.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

RC never offered

[Brian Fantana 6689]

So a dose of real talk:

Are we going to see both Texas and aggy go after Buzz?

[JimmyJames 12271]

The UT basketball job is the best job in all of sports. Not just college basketball, not just in college, but all of sports.

Why? You have all of the resources necessary to succeed with absolutely none of the expectations required in just about every other comparable job that has such resources. If you make the Sweet 16 at Texas in basketball you have had a successful year and you don’t even have to do that all the time, just some of the time. If you make the sweet 16 at Texas every other year you eventually retire at UT with the moniker of greatest coach of all time. 

Name another comparable job where you have as much money as you want, recruits all over the place, a great city, a great education to offer, comparable resources to all of your competitors, a top 10 salary with no state income tax, yet can still get away with just being kind of good and occasionally great.

Sure the drum can be the hum drum at times. Well if you start winning that goes away too and were about to get a new arena anyway, taking away that semi lame excuse. 

 

[Huckleberry 33038]

I find it telling that as a guy who has lived in Austin 20+ years, got two graduate degrees, and has worked on campus for seven years, not once did you ever refer to UT as "my" school or "our" school and seem largely ambivalent if not derisive about the University, in general.

The more humorous thing related to that life story is that he brushes aside arguments that Austin and UT are significantly more appealing than Lubbock and Tech despite being a Tech grad who bolted to Austin and UT and stayed there for 20 plus years as soon as he had his Tech degree.

[Huckleberry 33038]

No, I'm saying if UT is a top 5, even a top 1 or 2 program, in almost every sport, shouldn't UT have one of the best 2 or 5 coaches in the country most of the time in most sports?

No. That makes zero sense.

[Machinator 32099]

23 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

The UT basketball job is the best job in all of sports. Not just college basketball, not just in college, but all of sports.

Why? You have all of the resources necessary to succeed with absolutely none of the expectations required in just about every other comparable job that has such resources. If you make the Sweet 16 at Texas in basketball you have had a successful year and you don’t even have to do that all the time, just some of the time. If you make the sweet 16 at Texas every other year you eventually retire at UT with the moniker of greatest coach of all time. 

Name another comparable job where you have as much money as you want, recruits all over the place, a great city, a great education to offer, comparable resources to all of your competitors, a top 10 salary with no state income tax, yet can still get away with just being kind of good and occasionally great.

Sure the drum can be the hum drum at times. Well if you start winning that goes away too and were about to get a new arena anyway, taking away that semi lame excuse. 

 

Just for the sake of argument: if we somehow sneak into the tournament this year and make the second weekend, this has been a successful season?

[JimmyJames 12271]

16 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Just for the sake of argument: if we somehow sneak into the tournament this year and make the second weekend, this has been a successful season?

Yep. Because that means we probably won 5 games in a row.

And if we make the final four it will have been even more successful. 

Hell maybe we’ll win it all. Might even save Shaka’s job. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

24 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Just for the sake of argument: if we somehow sneak into the tournament this year and make the second weekend, this has been a successful season?

hell no. 

[jimmyjazz 45992]

28 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Just for the sake of argument: if we somehow sneak into the tournament this year and make the second weekend, this has been a successful season?

Actually, it would be "successful".  There is no doubt that despite being horribly inconsistent, this team has played at a fairly high level on several occasions, including against UNC, the 1st half against MSU, and both games against KU.  Assuming it takes a victory over the Jayhawks to advance, that's 3 against KU.  The 2nd weekend in the NCAA tournament would then require a win over a Top 25 team for sure (say 11/6 at best) and then what would likely be an even better 3 seed in the "Round of 32" (or whatever they call it now).

So sure, inconsistency with brief highlights, including the loss of the team's best player for the entire season, yeah that's not horrible.

I'm not predicting it.

Edited March 14, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[Machinator 32099]

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yep. Because that means we probably won 5 games in a row.

 

3 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

hell no. 

 

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Actually, it would be "successful". 

Welp.

[Dbeasy 15073]

The UT basketball job is the best job in all of sports. Not just college basketball, not just in college, but all of sports.
Why? You have all of the resources necessary to succeed with absolutely none of the expectations required in just about every other comparable job that has such resources. If you make the Sweet 16 at Texas in basketball you have had a successful year and you don’t even have to do that all the time, just some of the time. If you make the sweet 16 at Texas every other year you eventually retire at UT with the moniker of greatest coach of all time. 
Name another comparable job where you have as much money as you want, recruits all over the place, a great city, a great education to offer, comparable resources to all of your competitors, a top 10 salary with no state income tax, yet can still get away with just being kind of good and occasionally great.
Sure the drum can be the hum drum at times. Well if you start winning that goes away too and were about to get a new arena anyway, taking away that semi lame excuse. 
 

The problem with your theory is that it’s actually hard to win here. Lack of tradition, etc.

[jimmyjazz 45992]

4 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Welp.

Hey, I qualified my answer.

[Goo Punch 4275]

we're currently 16-15 (.516). let's go back and look at Texas teams from the last who were that bad W/L wise. We have:

•2016-17- 11-22 (.333) hey, that's two in three years for shaka!

•2012-13- 16-18 (.471) I'm just now realizing that if Kabongo doesn't get suspended that Rick Barnes is still our coach. Thanks Myck.

•1997-98- 14-17 (.452)- see ya Tom

•1992-93- 11-17 (.393)- this team had Terrence Rencher and BJ Tyler

•half the seasons in the 80's

It normally takes a decade or so for us to be as bad once as we've been twice under Shaka in three years. god damn what a joke. 

point being, finishing the season winning 3 of our final 5 games doesn't make up for how much of a giant gut punch/kick in the nuts this season has been. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Poolflood 845]

28 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yep. Because that means we probably won 5 games in a row.

And if we make the final four it will have been even more successful. 

Hell maybe we’ll win it all. Might even save Shaka’s job. 

I'm calling it now.  If we win it all Shaka won't be fired.

[dcar00 14306]

6 hours ago, Machinator said:

Wasn't Pierce our fourth choice or something like that? Obviously it's worked out swimmingly so far, but there's the obvious counterpoint.

I didn't follow the baseball coaching search closely, so I could be wrong.

part of the problem there was we had an interim AD.  Interim AD hiring is not ripe for getting who you want.

I'm not saying we can get who we want but with a real AD on board we are going to make our top 3 choices think real hard about turning us down.

Edited March 14, 2019 by dcar00

[Machinator 32099]

30 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hey, I qualified my answer.

Ha, nothing wrong with it, I just found it funny that I got three very different answers in rapid succession (yes, qualified yes, no).

Seems to me that our fanbase isn't quite settled on what program expectations are; we just know Shaka isn't meeting them.

[Goo Punch 4275]

i qualified my answer too, above. this has been a season so miserable that nothing short of a final four run could wipe the bad taste out of my mouth, and even then i'd honestly be sick to my stomach because shaka *is* a total fucking fraud who has failed upwards and who is in way over his head in the Big XII. This fact would make a final four run (and his ensuing job security) the most cruel and unusual punishment i can think of for having to endure this loser's time here over the last 3+ miserable years. i just want to lose to KU and be done with it. This horse's leg is severely broken and it needs to be put down. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

i'm also not going to get into some fierce debate with anyone about being a "bad fan". i want us to los to ku. by 30. or by one, after being up 20 with 12 minutes to go. either one should be just as effective. i have drawn my line in the sand and i will not back down. whatever results in shaka moving in from Texas is what's best for Texas basketball, and that's what I want to happen. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Goo Punch

[dcar00 14306]

even if the get in at 16-16, there is no way this team gets past the first weekend. they are not good. all you have to do is take away Febres.

[usmc0331horn 953]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

 

The problem with your theory is that it’s actually hard to win here. Lack of tradition, etc.

 

It's also hard to say it's the best job when the fans are so apathetic. I think having expectations and support makes a job a great job.

[LTtxfan 49304]

16 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

shaka *is* a total fucking fraud who has failed upwards and who is in way over his head in the Big XII. This fact would make a final four run (and his ensuing job security) the most cruel and unusual punishment i can think of for having to endure this loser's time here over the last 3+ miserable years. i just want to lose to KU and be done with it. This horse's leg is severely broken and it needs to be put down. 

Shaka trying to do tricks with this horse.....

Edited March 14, 2019 by LTtxfan

[ClubWhatever 12152]

I think earning the maximum guaranteed dollars in the shortest span possible makes a job a great job.  I’ve changed jobs many times under this guiding principle.  

[Goo Punch 4275]

UK, Duke, UNC, and KU are the best jobs. Texas is in the next tier of ideal jobs in CBB.

[jimmyjazz 45992]

22 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

i'm also not going to get into some fierce debate with anyone about being a "bad fan". i want us to los to ku.

There's no need for debate -- this makes you a bad fan.  Own it, big boy.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

There's no need for debate -- this makes you a bad fan.  Own it, big boy.

i disagree, but i don't mind if you feel that way. 

[jimmyjazz 45992]

Just now, Goo Punch said:

i disagree, but i don't mind if you feel that way. 

I'm serious.  If I see "TEXAS" on the jersey, I'm cheering for the team.  It's as simple as that.

I also think Shaka should be fired, and I think the next day or so will make that a reality.

[Goo Punch 4275]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm serious.  If I see "TEXAS" on the jersey, I'm cheering for the team.  It's as simple as that.

I also think Shaka should be fired, and I think the next day or so will make that a reality.

we both want what's best for Texas, we just disagree on what that is. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Shaka Smart is an objectively bad coach at the major d-1 level. imagine if recruiting dips. anything that gives him job security is bad for our program. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Braff Zacklin 13628]

32 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

i want us to los to ku. by 30. or by one, after being up 20 with 12 minutes to go

Unfortunate reading this from you.

Barring a miracle (such as the team getting hot and making the Final Four), Shaka is gone. Beating KU and backing into the tournament won't save his job.

Doubtful his firing happens this weekend, and maybe not even next weekend, but it will happen, probably after next season.

So what does losing to KU do aside from giving you another reason to make 10 posts decrying how much Shaka sucks and how he needs to be gone? There's no one left to disagree with you. This season has been the nail in the coffin.

[Machinator 32099]

I maintain the following:

1) making the tournament won't save his job by itself

2) Shaka won't be fired. He will either find a "soft landing" or he will be the coach here next season. 

3) The powers that be had already set things in motion even before the regular season (meaning individual games won't change the decision to keep him or not), and barring a deep run this week and/or next, it's going to come down to another school being able to take him and sufficiently cushion the monetary blow.

Therefore, I don't find any conflict in supporting the team tomorrow. That said, I expect them to lose, so this won't matter.

I also find it almost absurd that this team making a Final Four (something that it has accomplished exactly once in the past half-century) could be a bad thing; I would gladly trade a few more years of mediocrity for a Final Four run. But, I don't think we'll have to worry about that.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Machinator

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Machinator said:

 

I would gladly trade a few more years of mediocrity for a Final Four run. 

I think many basketball fans would.  A Final Four run is a friggin blast to be a part of.