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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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19 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You do realize that this  ^^^comes off like this:

 

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

All work and no ........ well,  you get the picture.......

I generally avoid replying to posts like this, but at some point i have to say aloud what it is that i'm thinking: you think i'm obsessed with barnes, but you are factually obsessed with me and my stake in this situation. i simply support a coach who means a lot to me for more than just fanatical reasons; i'm not embarrassed by that, and in fact i say it's completely normal. But you guys who obsess over me and my defense/support of Barnes? That's an obsession that I don't understand, nor do I understand how you don't see the irony in it. but whatever floats your boat i guess.

 

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Red Five
Red Five

That is tough to accomplish in four years, but I wouldn't put it past Shaka.

immamac
immamac
Camelback80
Camelback80

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here. Fans need to realize 2 maj

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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3 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

I generally avoid replying to posts like this, but at some point i have to say aloud what it is that i'm thinking: you think i'm obsessed with barnes, but you are factually obsessed with me and my stake in this situation. i simply support a coach who means a lot to me for more than just fanatical reasons; i'm not embarrassed by that, and in fact i say it's completely normal. But you guys who obsess over me and my defense/support of Barnes? That's an obsession that I don't understand, nor do I understand how you don't see the irony in it. but whatever floats your boat i guess.

 

Dude, I have no obsession with you, and yes you are obsessed with Barnes.  That, and it's all for fun anyway.

You take it way too seriously, like anything you or I post means jack shit.  Have fun, lighten up, chill, relax.....

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46351

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8 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

again, my take seems to be the only one that takes context and history into the equation. it's fine if you don't want to consider these things, but i do. the only thing that Mack Brown was the best at as far as UT head football coaches go was recruiting. Mack didn't do anything at Texas that hasn't been done before, and considering his absolutely elite recruiting there is no argument that says he shouldn't have done more at Texas. Give Bob Stoops (who again absolutely dominated Mack during the height of Mack's recruiting, the thing he was best at) the Texas rosters from 2001-2010 and his record is vastly superior to what Brown accomplished. 7 years of VY and Colt with defenses full of NFL studs and Stoops and his staff would have Texas where Bama is today. Or do you disagree?

I'm going to regret this, but what the hell.  I was reacting to your asinine comment that Rick Barnes was (to attempt to put it in words) vastly superior to Mack Brown in their respective roles.  You then went on and used the equally asinine argument that because Mack was such a great recruiter he "should have" done even better than he did, which completely ignores the fact that one of the biggest, if not THE biggest jobs of a college football head coach is . . . bear with me here . . . recruiting.

You want people to consider the relative stature of Texas football and basketball, and you want people to ignore actual results.  You can't have it both ways.  You can type your word salad until you're blue in the face, and evoke some perceived ability to understand history better than anybody else, and maybe even reference your Dad and your friends who have played for Texas, but you will never convince me nor most people that the silly comment you made about Mack and Rick is true.  And guess what, we are all just as passionate as you, just as steeped in history, just as smart, and just as capable of drawing and supporting a different conclusion.  And, a large percentage of us even went to school here.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15161

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Jimmyjazz is 100% right. There is no way Barnes could be considered way better than Mack. Mack’s underachievement is better than any achievement Barnes ever had at Texas, even taking into account the relative stature of the basketball and football programs. We had gone 34 years since a football title.

I’m sure a wall of text will be incoming.

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Bevo

Bevo 13609

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Comparing Barnes to Brown is stupid. They coach different sports. They both have faults. Brown wanted to be a CEO which was fine to an extent but he stopped managing and got lazy and allowed the guys reporting to him to be lazy. He was an average football coach with great PR skills and with a good vision and average leadership skills and great recruiting skills. Barnes was a good coach with good recruiting skills and average leadership skills and average PR skills and average vision. They both have pluses and minuses which put them above 70% of their peers.Neither were exemplary. Because of that they were removed from their positions at Texas.

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15161

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Comparing Barnes to Brown is stupid. They coach different sports. They both have faults. Brown wanted to be a CEO which was fine to an extent but he stopped managing and got lazy and allowed the guys reporting to him to be lazy. He was an average football coach with great PR skills and with a good vision and average leadership skills and great recruiting skills. Barnes was a good coach with good recruiting skills and average leadership skills and average PR skills and average vision. They both have pluses and minuses which put them above 70% of their peers.Neither were exemplary. Because of that they were removed from their positions at Texas.

Everyone bags on Mack for not winning more big 12 titles and maybe not achieving more, but he had a ten year run that was up there with the best in Texas history and in college football history. He deserves more respect from some of the fans here on Surly than he gets.

It’s hard to win that much for that long. Hell Stoops only won one title, early in his OU tenure. Very few coaches have had a run like that. And you could argue about the fact he wasn’t a great x and o coach, and how he finished weak in his tenure, etc. but he still put that run together. Him. He did it.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46351

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Mack was 7-9 against OU (6-9 against Stoops.)  It's not like he never recovered from getting his stool pushed in annually in the early 2000's.  (Cue the mouthbreathers' typical retort "yeah he was the beneficiary of two transcendent QBs", both of whom he recruited and one of whom nobody fucking wanted.)

People like to talk as if Mack was set up for success, but compared to Stoops, that's not actually true. Mackovic plundered much of what defensive talent he had to put it on offense.  Stoops was the beneficiary of some serious talent left over from John Blake, who could recruit, but who was otherwise abysmal.

I liked Rick Barnes.  I liked Mack Brown.  To say Rick was a vastly superior coach in basketball than Mack was in football is lunacy.  I'd say they were similar, and we were lucky to have both.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46351

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18 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Are Vince and Colt more "transcendent" than freaking Durant and TJ Ford?

That's a real tough call.  I'd put VY & KD above TJ and Colt, but I'd struggle to say (for instance) whether VY was better at his sport than KD was at his, etc.  Interesting thought experiment.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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"incoming wall of text." for what? you guys keep saying things like, "Mack won a natty and played for another, how can you say that Rick did more?!", which means that you either arent reading my posts or simply choosing to ignore what i've said. I'm not gonna go copy/paste my last post as if it's going to somehow sink in this time. Comparatively speaking- what did each coach do for his program? One added to his program's already blue blood legacy but ultimately underachieved, the other essentially created his program's entire legacy and took it further than anyone could have predicted or foreseen. That's my case. If anybody wants to actually address that, fine; if not, time to move on. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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also you guys give me way too much attention and hype. you've built me up to be something i'm not. any time someone disagrees with me the doomsday clock gets started and everyone gets their popcorn ready, but then those same people like to try to bag on me for supposedly craving attention. here's an idea: stop bending over backwards to give me this extra attention and see if anything changes. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46351

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You can't hold one coach to a higher standard simply because he happened to follow a legend (22 years later).  The question should be how did each coach do relative to national competition when they were at the helm?  I think it's pretty hard to say Barnes elevated UT to a higher national profile than Mack did.  In fact, it's impossible to say that.

Furthermore, you also diminish Abe Lemons and to some degree Tom Penders with your assessment of how Rick Barnes brought Texas out of the primordial ooze.

Maybe for once -- just once -- you might actually consider why people are disagreeing with your takes, which tend to the extreme.  I know you won't, but maybe you should.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49387

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Furthermore, you also diminish Abe Lemons and to some degree Tom Penders with your assessment of how Rick Barnes brought Texas out of the primordial ooze.

Maybe for once -- just once -- you might actually consider why people are disagreeing with your takes, which tend to the extreme.  I know you won't, but maybe you should.

In Jan 1982, that horrible Mike Wacker knee injury on that Damn Stupid Rubber Floor in Waco killed one of the greatest Texas Basketball teams ever (think we were ranked in the Top 5 at that time)..... and ended Abe's career at Texas too...... 

Edited by LTtxfan
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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37 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You can't hold one coach to a higher standard simply because he happened to follow a legend (22 years later).  The question should be how did each coach do relative to national competition when they were at the helm? I think it's pretty hard to say Barnes elevated UT to a higher national profile than Mack did.  In fact, it's impossible to say that.

Furthermore, you also diminish Abe Lemons and to some degree Tom Penders with your assessment of how Rick Barnes brought Texas out of the primordial ooze.

Maybe for once -- just once -- you might actually consider why people are disagreeing with your takes, which tend to the extreme.  I know you won't, but maybe you should.

That's your take, and your opinion, and I could not have been more clear about the fact that I 100% disagree with viewing the situation in that light. You somehow fail to see that you are just as unwilling (in reality more so) as I am to consider the other person's point of view. You make your snarky remarks about my inability to see other's POV, and then you go and do that exact same thing yourself. This conversation is beyond futile at this point, and it really shouldn't continue any further. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oh yeah, you're a paragon of objective thought.  Yeesh.  Carry on.

You know there's a helluva lot of people here on this very board (and the baseball board) who have zero problems giving a differing take from mine without all of the dramatics. I'm not the one in here taking jabs at other people (that would be you), i'm not the one here getting all up in arms about other people's opinions, and i'm not one of the half dozen people who are openly and publicly praying for some sort of eruption every time someone disagrees with me. I'm in here giving my opinion and keeping it germane, while being open to discuss this with anyone who wants to at least acknowledge and honestly reply to the points i've made. i can't make you see what you refuse to see, but these are facts. It's not nearly as hard to engage me honestly as you make it out to be. 

If you want to give it one more try i'll repeat it one more time, but if we're going to keep talking shit and calling names without even honestly replying to each other's points then let's put it to rest. Deal?

My POV- what did Mack Brown bring to UT football and it's legacy vs what did Rick Barnes bring to UT basketball and it's legacy? I cannot state it any more clearly or any more often. Mack added onto what was already a blue blood pedigree with one natty, two conference titles, and one Heisman winner. OTOH Rick is almost solely responsible for, what, 90% of the greatest achievements in program history? The FF, the multiple NPOY's, the rivalry with KU, the numerous All Americans and lottery picks, the three league titles, the legacies of TJ, KD,  etc. address this and we can talk. Keep insulting me and taking jabs, and well, you might want to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself who's turning this discussion into a pissy e-fight.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46351

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24 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

My POV- what did Mack Brown bring to UT football and it's legacy vs what did Rick Barnes bring to UT basketball and it's legacy? I cannot state it any more clearly or any more often. Mack added onto what was already a blue blood pedigree with one natty, two conference titles, and one Heisman winner. OTOH Rick is almost solely responsible for, what, 90% of the greatest achievements in program history? The FF, the multiple NPOY's, the rivalry with KU, the numerous All Americans and lottery picks, the three league titles, the legacies of TJ, KD,  etc. address this and we can talk. 

If you're judging based on which guy elevated his program more relative to historic highs?  Sure, I guess we can give the nod to Rick.  In my opinion, that has nothing to do with the job that either coach did while they were at the helm.  Your metric is inherently biased against football coaches simply because Darrell Royal set a high bar.

If Eddie Reese retires, a new coach takes over, and he wins 3 of the next 10 national titles with no other program winning more than 2, should that effort be diminished simply because Reese had already set an almost impossible standard to meet?  Would we say that our new softball coach did better if the girls made it to the finals one year in that time span?

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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12 minutes ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Maybe I’ll concede that Barnes’ accomplishments are more significant relative to the program, but then I’m just admitting that I don’t give a fuck about basketball comparatively.

that's all i've been saying anyway. mack won a national title. end of story. if we're only going to compare each coach's accomplishments at face value then what discussion is there to be had? Natty > Final Four. Easy.

That's where context comes into play. Mack didn't do anything at Texas that hadn't already been done before. Now as for Rick, It's been a while since i looked it up, but I believe Texas had *made* the NCAA tourney 17 times in something like the previous 50 years before Barnes, with only a few total trips to the Sweet 16. Then Barnes gets here and we go 17 times in 18 years including 5 S16 trips in six years. That type of completely unprecedented success with the program *for me* makes what Rick did as HC of UT basketball >>>>>> what Mack did as HC of UT football. 

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13008

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23 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

that's all i've been saying anyway. mack won a national title. end of story. if we're only going to compare each coach's accomplishments at face value then what discussion is there to be had? Natty > Final Four. Easy.

That's where context comes into play. Mack didn't do anything at Texas that hadn't already been done before. Now as for Rick, It's been a while since i looked it up, but I believe Texas had *made* the NCAA tourney 17 times in something like the previous 50 years before Barnes, with only a few total trips to the Sweet 16. Then Barnes gets here and we go 17 times in 18 years including 5 S16 trips in six years. That type of completely unprecedented success with the program *for me* makes what Rick did as HC of UT basketball >>>>>> what Mack did as HC of UT football. 

Texas made 2 Final 4s and 2 Elite 8s and 5 sweet 16s before Barnes

Edited by Michael Knight
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HookEm

HookEm 2468

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29 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

that's all i've been saying anyway. mack won a national title. end of story. if we're only going to compare each coach's accomplishments at face value then what discussion is there to be had? Natty > Final Four. Easy.

That's where context comes into play. Mack didn't do anything at Texas that hadn't already been done before. Now as for Rick, It's been a while since i looked it up, but I believe Texas had *made* the NCAA tourney 17 times in something like the previous 50 years before Barnes, with only a few total trips to the Sweet 16. Then Barnes gets here and we go 17 times in 18 years including 5 S16 trips in six years. That type of completely unprecedented success with the program *for me* makes what Rick did as HC of UT basketball >>>>>> what Mack did as HC of UT football. 

Again, by that logic, what Barnes did at Texas is more impressive than what Saban has done at Alabama.  Because Bear Bryant had already done all that before.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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35 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Again, by that logic, what Barnes did at Texas is more impressive than what Saban has done at Alabama.  Because Bear Bryant had already done all that before.

In no world is what Rick Barnes did for Texas basketball greater than what Nick Saban has done for Alabama football, and you repeating this absurd notion over and over doesn't make it any less ridiculous. 

I can't wrap my head around your leap from, "well if what Barnes did was more impressive than what Mack Brown did then Barnes > Nick Saban", because that's ridiculous. What you're essentially saying here is that Mack Brown = Nick Saban, and that's just crazy. What Saban has done at Alabama is pretty much unparalleled anywhere, in any sport, and certainly not analogous to what Mack Brown did at Texas.

 In the modern era of American sports where kids are getting specialized, sport-specific training including nutrition/diet regimens from elementary school-age forward, and where every school is on TV every weekend, and has five different Nike jerseys and a huge social media presence, the competitive advantage that blue bloods held in Bryant's day has been long gone for decades now. Dominating the modern game the way Saban has >> Bear Bryant or John Wooden's accomplishments, as well as >> Jose Mourinho, or Phil Jackson, or Bill Belichick, and certainly  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything Rick Barnes or Mack Brown has ever done. By a million miles. You're stretching this argument beyond rationality here. Come on man.

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realgreggym

realgreggym 837

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15 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

That's your take, and your opinion, and I could not have been more clear about the fact that I 100% disagree with viewing the situation in that light. You somehow fail to see that you are just as unwilling (in reality more so) as I am to consider the other person's point of view. You make your snarky remarks about my inability to see other's POV, and then you go and do that exact same thing yourself. This conversation is beyond futile at this point, and it really shouldn't continue any further. 

You are the worst. You think your opinion is always right and everyone else is wrong. No one on this board has built you up. You did that even though most of the time you have no clue what you're saying. Stick to posting pictures of 16 year olds. Thats the only thing on this board that you do well.

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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On 4/20/2019 at 12:27 AM, jimmyjazz said:

What in the ever-luvin' hell?

This is a bit, right?

Mack Brown built a program that arguably was the best in college football over a decade.  Certainly top 2 or 3.  Rick Barnes . . . didn't dominate anything.  He was great for UT basketball, no doubt.  I'd even buy the argument that he was roughly as successful as Mack.  Your take?  Insanity.

I seldom agree(ok probably never) with you, but holy fucking shit this is truth. I thought Derka was nuts before.....

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orangecat92

orangecat92 306

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Obligatory in before classics,  and I loved page 99, popcorn, subscribed, etc.   The truth of the matter is some of us olds actually saw the best basketball coach in Texas history, Abe.  Even though Abe’s personality dominated the program, he actually excelled in two other facets, recruiting and development.  His teams could play fast high scoring, or slow low scoring.  Look it up, the 14-0 horns before Wacker injury beat 2 top 10 teams by an average of about 14 points.  The team was on its way to the final four.  national players of the year?nope.....one legit. All American, lasalle and one legit. 1st team all conference, Wacker.  Desire, heart, chemistry, and coaching.  And talk about playing loose.   Your team reflects your coaches personality.  It is very possible that team would have played The loosest of the final 4 teams had Waco not happened, and we would have been in the championship game. 

 

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