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Fire Shaka Smart

smokebomb

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3462

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Shaka is not the first coach to experience high roster turnover.  The fact of a matter is there wasn't a PG on the roster in the 2016-2017 season. The ship had sailed on Fox by midsummer 2015. There was no reason not to go scorched earth in finding a PG for the following year just in case Taylor moved on. Good coaches have backup plans and prepare for worst case scenarios. 

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Red Five
Red Five

That is tough to accomplish in four years, but I wouldn't put it past Shaka.

immamac
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Camelback80
Camelback80

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here. Fans need to realize 2 maj

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CheesePie

CheesePie 238

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Another knock on his roster management, maybe more egregious than the PG whiff,  is his tendency to go after lanky, project types that need two years of weight training in order to compete with the grown men in the Big 12. The top dogs in the conference stock their rosters, 1 through 5, with physically imposing athletes that are able to bully the opponent. Shaka's infatuation with long term NBA potential makes our roster totally unsuitable to compete in the Big 12. Big, physical, tough teams compete in this conference, unfortunately Shaka wasn't able to the figure that out.

 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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1 hour ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

I don't see a realistic way he stays unless I've overestimated CDC's grasp on the situation - or everybody has overestimated his fundraising abilities - but it's still possible he doesn't find a landing spot elsewhere and the money is still a sticking point. Maybe I just don't want to consider that CDC would run this thing back yet again expecting/hoping for different results. Things I've heard make me believe gears are already turning, but the 20% is a hedge against the unknown.

UT is so political, it's really hard to know how legitimate anything like "gears are already turning" is. You may have specific knowledge you can't or don't want to share, but that could mean anything from "the decision has been made and the machinations are underway" to the Jesus Shuttlesworth/Big Cigar "believable bullshit" stuff we dealt with under latter-day Mack Brown. 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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15 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Shaka is not the first coach to experience high roster turnover.  The fact of a matter is there wasn't a PG on the roster in the 2016-2017 season. The ship had sailed on Fox by midsummer 2015. There was no reason not to go scorched earth in finding a PG for the following year just in case Taylor moved on. Good coaches have backup plans and prepare for worst case scenarios. 

This entire topic can broadly be written off as "Shaka couldn't recruit well enough". If the roster's not to his liking and/or hasn't been, then he either should have done or could not manage to do something better. 

I don't really care what his classes were ranked; if we're going to say the roster had holes in it that kept him from winning as much as he should have, he's directly responsible as the person in charge of recruiting.

I guess I find the double-clicking on the topic to try to excuse the W-L record, by Wescott Meepberts to name one, tiresome. Recruiting as it was should have been enough to win more than 85 of 162 games. If that recruiting wasn't good enough, that's still Shaka's fault. 

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txhorns

txhorns 2421

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19 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Shaka is not the first coach to experience high roster turnover.  The fact of a matter is there wasn't a PG on the roster in the 2016-2017 season. The ship had sailed on Fox by midsummer 2015. There was no reason not to go scorched earth in finding a PG for the following year just in case Taylor moved on. Good coaches have backup plans and prepare for worst case scenarios. 

I contribute the lack of a PG that year as much if not more so to Barnes.  That said Shaka should have found some JUCO PG who could handle the ball.

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NoName

NoName 17107

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On 2/16/2020 at 9:13 AM, El Squared said:

Very few if any high paid coaches resign, unless it’s for scandal. Too many dollars left on the table.

Resigning for health issues ( real, not Urbanesque) or family ones like Chris Petersen happens occasionally.

Trying to think of anyone in a major sport who resigned because of years of shitty results....not coming up with any right off.

June Jones at SMU, but he was phoning it in for a while before he quit 2 games into the season...

not that changes your point, just one guy who came to mind. as you said, it is a rarity

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Bitterwhiteguy

Bitterwhiteguy 153

Posted
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3 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

UT is so political, it's really hard to know how legitimate anything like "gears are already turning" is. You may have specific knowledge you can't or don't want to share, but that could mean anything from "the decision has been made and the machinations are underway" to the Jesus Shuttlesworth/Big Cigar "believable bullshit" stuff we dealt with under latter-day Mack Brown. 

I do my best to not engage in the "believable bullshit" stuff, for two reasons: 

1) This is not my day job, I do not have a literal or metaphorical vested interest in selling the idea of being an insider.

2) It doesn't do anybody any good to overstate/oversell things because it will bite you in the ass in the end. I already get bit in the ass enough by my normal everyday statements as it is, I don't need to kick things up a notch.

The information I have is secondhand, but I've heard it enough places I'm willing to make reference to it publicly. I'm not guaranteeing an outcome (see the hedge), but I've heard what I've heard. Take it with the appropriately-sized grain of salt.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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3 minutes ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

I do my best to not engage in the "believable bullshit" stuff, for two reasons: 

1) This is not my day job, I do not have a literal or metaphorical vested interest in selling the idea of being an insider.

2) It doesn't do anybody any good to overstate/oversell things because it will bite you in the ass in the end. I already get bit in the ass enough by my normal everyday statements as it is, I don't need to kick things up a notch.

The information I have is secondhand, but I've heard it enough places I'm willing to make reference to it publicly. I'm not guaranteeing an outcome (see the hedge), but I've heard what I've heard. Take it with the appropriately-sized grain of salt.

Sorry, I should have written that more clearly, but I tried three times and gave up since this isn't my day job, either. I didn't mean you were guilty of Shuttlesworthing anything. I meant you might be passing along information by someone doing the Shuttlesworthing. 

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Bitterwhiteguy

Bitterwhiteguy 153

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7 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Sorry, I should have written that more clearly, but I tried three times and gave up since this isn't my day job, either. I didn't mean you were guilty of Shuttlesworthing anything. I meant you might be passing along information by someone doing the Shuttlesworthing. 

It's a fair point, every source has an agenda; sometimes it's difficult to figure out who is pushing a narrative vs reporting reality.

I remember how annoyed I was by how the whole Saban thing played out and try to avoid falling into the same trap. It's part of the reason I generally hand the breaking news/insider stuff to others in the industry who either depend on it more financially and/or have the resources to better vet the information.

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Camelback80

Camelback80 107

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Posted (edited)

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

Edited by Camelback80
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Yev Kassem

Yev Kassem 1078

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Camelback80 said:

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

Wescott Eberts sock confirmed. 

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CheesePie

CheesePie 238

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5 minutes ago, Camelback80 said:

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

that's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read

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Tired Horn

Tired Horn 826

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1 hour ago, Camelback80 said:

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

You're either a truly dedicated troll or an imbecile. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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6 hours ago, Napoleon said:


Just looked up John Beilein...

He's 67 years-old. Hopefully the fire still burns and he'd love to burn that fire for 4 to 10 years in Austin, but he may be at a point where he wants to retire and then run a few summer camps each year. 

If he wants to get back into the college game, I'd be happy to have him come on down to Austin.

FROM Wikipedia: 

Beilein finished his career at Michigan with a 278–150 record in 12 seasons as head coach, including...
- two trips to the national title game
- two Big Ten titles
- two Big Ten Tournament titles

well he left a great gig at Michigan to sign a five year deal with Cleveland of all cities/teams, so i would hope that he still has plenty of desire to coach left in him.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19212

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37 minutes ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

An old ass Beilein is much better than what we have now. 

If we pursue Beilein after the season what is the Shaka buyout?

Unless someone has read the contract and knows his remaining salary accelerates, I don’t think it’s a buyout. UT would owe the remainder of his salary paid out over the life of the term, totaling about $10 million. If UT wants to settle with him for less based on a present value deduction, it could, though Shaka probably won’t want that so he has an easier time getting a new school to leave his “total salary” high but sign him on the cheap.
Otherwise, the amount of cash on hand needed for UT to move on from Shaka and hire someone without a buyout, a la Beilen or Matta, would be pretty small and inconsequential.
CDC would probably want to have commitments to cover the rest of Shaka’s salary upon firing, but that and a couple potential assistant buyouts would be about it. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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4 hours ago, Horn80 said:

He’s 67 years old.  No thanks

first, we are in zero position to pass on a coach of his caliber. second, i've heard so many people say this, and my thought every time is, "so what?" like, seriously, so what? Pete Carroll is 68; Bill Belichick is 67; Gregg Popovich is 71. He was born in the 1940's! What about the age of 67 matters to you guys? It's been a long time being in your 60's automatically meant that you're some senile geriatric who isn't long for this world. John Beilein would be a miracle hire at this point. The fact that he's 67 means absolutely nothing, and i'll take 5, 6, or however many years Beilein has left in him in a heartbeat. There isn't a single viable/realistic candidate who's a better coach than him *and* under the age of 60. shit, there might not be a better (realistic) candidate period. 

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justhookit

justhookit 4205

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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

How many of you all would be against firing Shaka mid-season and letting the defensive assistant run the team? Is that poor form?

I don’t see the point in doing it now there are only 6 games left. I would have been fine with a mid season firing around the beginning of conference play.

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justhookit

justhookit 4205

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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

How many of you all would be against firing Shaka mid-season and letting the defensive assistant run the team? Is that poor form?

I don’t see the point in doing it now there are only 6 games left. I would have been fine with a mid season firing around the beginning of conference play.

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Js1

Js1 86943

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19 minutes ago, justhookit said:

I don’t see the point in doing it now there are only 6 games left. I would have been fine with a mid season firing around the beginning of conference play.

This.  The time to do it was after the WV game. 

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Billy Pilgrim

Billy Pilgrim 2058

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3 hours ago, Camelback80 said:

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

This has gotta be Shaka’s wife, parents or sibling, right? No one can objectively buy this bullshit.

If he’d be competitive in C-USA, then that’s where he needs to be. Not playing checkers while every other coach in this conference is playing chess.

Additionally, you can’t “wait for his players to become upperclassmen” in this day and age with transfer portals, etc. He needed to win 3 years ago which is why we have warmed over dogshit on this roster right now.

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The Ace of Aces

The Ace of Aces 5366

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4 hours ago, Camelback80 said:

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

SFA would beat this Texas team 8 out of 10 times. Shaka Smart is a failure at Texas. I wish him well at Vanderbilt or whatever next season. 

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Teryor

Teryor 4966

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17 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Beilein is too damn old

I'll take as close to a slam dunk hire for 5-10 years at max who can get our program back into the national conversation and build off our new stadium opening over almost any of the current up comers expected to be on the market this year. You really want to be the one to give Anthony Grant another major conference shot after he failed miserably at Bama? 

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dcar00

dcar00 14905

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46 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This.  The time to do it was after the WV game. 

exactly but it we won't ever fire midseason beyond scandal or some very serious locker room situation.  In "he locker room situation I could see a reassignment.  we just don't do it.

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jinx

jinx 2636

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Posted
1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

first, we are in zero position to pass on a coach of his caliber. second, i've heard so many people say this, and my thought every time is, "so what?" like, seriously, so what? Pete Carroll is 68; Bill Belichick is 67; Gregg Popovich is 71. He was born in the 1940's! What about the age of 67 matters to you guys? It's been a long time being in your 60's automatically meant that you're some senile geriatric who isn't long for this world. John Beilein would be a miracle hire at this point. The fact that he's 67 means absolutely nothing, and i'll take 5, 6, or however many years Beilein has left in him in a heartbeat. There isn't a single viable/realistic candidate who's a better coach than him *and* under the age of 60. shit, there might not be a better (realistic) candidate period. 

Derka / Goo Punch has me sold on this idea.  I posted a link to older coaches in the Beilein thread, and there are a lot of notable names above and just below him on the list.  I have also formed the idea in my head that Beilein attracts great assistants and he may give us a HCIW on the staff.

Basically, I don't give a shit if he is 97 if he can coach circles around Shaka.  

Morgan Freeman narrator:  He can

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10096

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5 hours ago, Camelback80 said:

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here.

Fans need to realize 2 major things:

1. UT is not a basketball school where lofty expectations are unquestionably in order, and finding the "right coach" is all that's needed to suddenly change everything. You guys think who the coach is matters way more than it actually does.

2. Shaka's entire performance all the years he's been here have been seen through the lens of the strongest conference in basketball. You could take the exact same Texas teams he's had and put them in C-USA and they would win conference titles. They'd get invites to the NCAA tournament because of it, and they'd get bounced early, but by and large the optics of it all would be decent and there would be much less fan unrest.

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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Posted
On 2/16/2020 at 3:05 AM, Goo Punch said:

VCU played a style that teams weren't familiar with and they hit a whole bunch of threes along the way. They were hitting like 12-13 threes per game at 45-50% during that run. 

This is the part that had me hooked, actually. It looked (wrongly, it turns out) like Shaka was able to coach shooters to do the thing they are supposed to do best:  shoot. I still think it's a good quality to look for in a coach, the ability to get people shooting threes at a high percentage, but obviously somebody smarter than me needs to be the one doing the looking.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19212

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1 hour ago, Walden Ponderer said:

This is the part that had me hooked, actually. It looked (wrongly, it turns out) like Shaka was able to coach shooters to do the thing they are supposed to do best:  shoot. I still think it's a good quality to look for in a coach, the ability to get people shooting threes at a high percentage, but obviously somebody smarter than me needs to be the one doing the looking.

Eh. That’s pretty unreliable and usually changes form year to year. You’d have to have a huge sample size in order to start making determinations that either his scheme produced a lot of great looks or he (not an assistant) is great at evaluating and developing shooters.
 

Generally, if you look for teams that have a high 3 point percentage, you’re just going to be buying high on a coach who’s going to experience regression. A player’s FT shooting % is actually more predictive of future 3 point shooting success than past 3 pt shooting percentages. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19212

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18 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I'd be curious to see how accurate this assessment is.  Not curious enough to actually do the work myself, of course.

This is only one team, but I was trying to think of a coach who had been at a single school for a long time. Here’s KU’s 3 PT %s over the years:

11-12: .345 (157th)

12-13: .364 (65th)

13-14: .340 (188th)

14-15: .379 (47th)

15-16: .418 (4th)

16-17: .404 (6th)

17-18: .401 (11th)

18-19: .350 (143rd)

19-20: .350 (95th) 

 

Overall, 3 point shooting is very player-dependent and it’s not like certain coaches can always identify 3 point shooters while others can’t, so trying to look at a coach’s 3 point shooting numbers, isn’t going to be a very reliable method unless they can show consistently good performances over many, many years through different rosters and different assistants.

FWIW, Beilein’s also been all over the place.

12-13: .385 (18th)

13-14: .402 (5th)

14-15: .359 (96th)

15-16: .380 (38th)

16-17: .385 (36th)

17-18: .357 (136th)

18-19: .342 (193rd)

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19212

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3 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I'm not suggesting him as a candidate,  but what do Bennett's numbers look like through the years? Or Pete Carril during Princeton's heyday?

Clearly it is variable from player to player, but I have a hard time believing there aren't some coaches who teach the skill better than others.

Bennett’s been all over the place too since he’s been at UVA. He had a good string for a few years with the roster that won the title, but before and after those guys his numbers dipped a ton. 
 

I never said it was impossible for a few elite coaches to have teams that are consistently good at 3 point shooting, but that’s not a trait that will be able to reliably identify until there’s a massive sample size, so trying to use 3 point shooting as a factor in selecting coaches is much more likely to get you to buy high on a coach buoyed by a good shooting year, than identify a coach who’s exceptional at identifying and developing 3 point shooters.

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