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Fire Shaka Smart

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31304

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4 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I think it's well-established at this point that Del Conte was on the outside looking in during the Herman firing and Sarkisian hiring.

As far as I can tell, it's only well-established if you give credence to rumors.  To me, Sarkisian's hire reeks of Del Conte and not BMD.

The situation with Shaka is more complicated than Shaka sucks.  Del Conte can fully acknowledge that fact and still not fire him.

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Red Five
Red Five

That is tough to accomplish in four years, but I wouldn't put it past Shaka.

immamac
immamac
Camelback80
Camelback80

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here. Fans need to realize 2 maj

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ztejas

ztejas 43266

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I don't think he did. I think it's well-established at this point that Del Conte was on the outside looking in during the Herman firing and Sarkisian hiring. It's then logical to assume he wasn't allowed to unilaterally extend Herman's contract, although it's also possible that his exclusion from the Herman/Meyer/Sarkisian situation was a response to how he handled the extension. Was it even his idea? I don't really know. I don't want to get into the new staff remark as that's going to take us way off in the weeds and the particulars of Herman aren't the point. 

My point was that how Del Conte has handled men's basketball is, to me personally, in evaluating his performance, a bigger black mark than anything he did with regard to the football program. I'm not arguing basketball is more important than football, or anything about how much it should matter to anyone else, and I already know all of the contextual mitigations people like to give Del Conte in explaining why he retained a coach who needed a long and improbable win streak at the end of his fifth year just to manage a personal-best tied-for-third finish.

I'm saying I have a much bigger problem letting an obviously terrible basketball coach hang on through six years (which most likely means seven) than I do letting an obviously mediocre football coach stay for a fourth year. 

I can explain why, further, but maybe just clarifying that is sufficient. 

Dude... you're all over the place. I'm not sure how you can blame CDC for Shaka when you don't even think CDC had a hand in firing Herman or hiring Sark. And bringing your personal stance on it into the mix is exactly what I was addressing in my comment. For better or worse, your view on the situation is not especially representative of the Texas fan base or BMDs or university leadership - the latter two of which CDC has to answer to.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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10 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm not sure how you can blame CDC for Shaka when you don't even think CDC had a hand in firing Herman or hiring Sark.

This isn't hard. I don't think CDC was allowed a hand in firing Herman. He has had ample opportunity to fire Smart and hasn't done so despite the rhetoric about championship caliber programs and splashy softball coach hirings. 

And @TwiceHorn, I do find those rumors credible given who they come from. 

10 minutes ago, ztejas said:

And bringing your personal stance on it into the mix is exactly what I was addressing in my comment. For better or worse, your view on the situation is not especially representative of the Texas fan base or BMDs or university leadership - the latter two of which CDC has to answer to.

My personal stance is the only one I have any control over and the only one that matters to me on a subject like this. I could not care less if I'm the only person on Earth who thinks this way. Del Conte should have fired Smart two years ago or last February. He dithered, and now we're stuck with Smart all the way through next season.

That, to me, is a much bigger problem than the handling of a football coach given I personally believe the rumors that CDC wasn't able to take meaningful action with regard to the football coach. 

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orangecat92

orangecat92 306

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Posted

Is Shaka last coach from Patterson regime?

i had today as a win, but not a wake up, dominate late game win.  If we finish 3 and 7 before conference tourney, as I predict, how is Shaka perceived nationally? Does he still get a pass, every year, forever, until he has a losing season? 

Only way Shaka leaves imo is losing record, or his decision, once he understands there is no extension coming.  Someone wants to hire him right now, and Texas needs to facilitate that action.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31304

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2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Dude... you're all over the place. I'm not sure how you can blame CDC for Shaka when you don't even think CDC had a hand in firing Herman or hiring Sark. And bringing your personal stance on it into the mix is exactly what I was addressing in my comment. For better or worse, your view on the situation is not especially representative of the Texas fan base or BMDs or university leadership - the latter two of which CDC has to answer to.

It is historically plausible for BMD, administration, and regents to leave the AD alone when it comes to basketball while meddling like hell with football coaching hires.

However, I think the monetary aspect of the Shaka deal required going hat-in-hand to the BMD at least, so invited meddling there, as well.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31304

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2 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

This isn't hard. I don't think CDC was allowed a hand in firing Herman. He has had ample opportunity to fire Smart and hasn't done so despite the rhetoric about championship caliber programs and splashy softball coach hirings. 

And @TwiceHorn, I do find those rumors credible given who they come from. 

My personal stance is the only one I have any control over and the only one that matters to me on a subject like this. I could not care less if I'm the only person on Earth who thinks this way. Del Conte should have fired Smart two years ago or last February. He dithered, and now we're stuck with Smart all the way through next season.

That, to me, is a much bigger problem than the handling of a football coach given I personally believe the rumors that CDC wasn't able to take meaningful action with regard to the football coach. 

It was hard to keep up with, but didn't seem to me like anyone was more than about 50% credible on anything.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Posted (edited)

x/post

my dad came over to help me with something and then watch the game. we spent the entire second half yelling at the TV every time we were on offense. zero off-ball movement, stagnant possessions, one lazy, shitty pass after another, a complete failure to adjust to Huggy Bear's own defensive adjustments, all resulting in our guys settling for poor shot after poor shot. just a pathetic effort in the 2H, and a crystal clear example of Shaka Smart being totally outclassed in this league. he went running and screaming after the officials when the game ended, as if it was their fault that we imploded and failed to make adjustments. get this clown out of here.

Edited by shadow_operative
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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4440

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Posted (edited)

Why does any team EVER not play zone vs. this inept fucking fraud?

After five years of watching Shaka’s pathetic flailing vs. such exotic zone schemes, I’m baffled why any opposing coach would spend a single second in man.

Edited by CurlyDumps
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Pancho

Pancho 44492

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I really like what Oates is doing at Alabama.  He just signed an extension though and Alabama has money to keep him. 

Underwood might be too old???  Not sure if we want to go younger, and he’s built back Illinois and they care more about basketball than football (I think).

I think I need to see more from Muss over at Arkansas before I cast judgment. 

 

If CDC can pull Vic for the women, I have confidence in him getting the right hire for the men.  And I thought I read on the 995 board that the money was already set aside for Shaka’s buyout and it football wouldn’t impact that money. 

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SDG

SDG 3319

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12 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I really like what Oates is doing at Alabama.  He just signed an extension though and Alabama has money to keep him. 

Underwood might be too old???  Not sure if we want to go younger, and he’s built back Illinois and they care more about basketball than football (I think).

I think I need to see more from Muss over at Arkansas before I cast judgment. 

 

If CDC can pull Vic for the women, I have confidence in him getting the right hire for the men.  And I thought I read on the 995 board that the money was already set aside for Shaka’s buyout and it football wouldn’t impact that money. 

Well he hasn’t been extended again. 
 

ive never been on the fire Shaka wagon but today was enough.  He simply can’t manage 5* egos and never actually won the league as a HC.  He’s basically living on 1 ff bc he beat the mighty Kansas.  
 

I’ll watch/start threads bc my fandom goes beyond player and coaches but damn..

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Horn80

Horn80 6075

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6 hours ago, dcar00 said:

the guy is a fraud.  he's not a basketball coach.  he's an AAU "coach" mumbling  platitudes. 

Yep.  Shaka is a good recruiter that can get some NBA bound players to make a pit stop at Texas that wins him just enough games but eventually his poor coaching skills tanks his teams each season as indicated by his 47-55 Big 12 record at Texas. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48988

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Machinator said:

Eric Nahlin at Inside Texas said today after the game that he heard early feedback that a change at head coach is "more likely than not." Probably 9.95er BS, especially with several games left to be played, but something to track.

Hope the buyout to hire next TEXAS coach isn't steep.  Beard might be too much money.

  • Current Shaka buyout after this season is $7mill. 
  • Roughly $300k monthly payout for 2yrs gets rid of Shaka

Any info on whether current contract has offset language if Shaka gets hired elsewhere??  (Would help TEXAS recover part of buyout money.)

Need a new basketball coach to open Moody Center and fill more seats...

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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15 hours ago, Pancho said:

I really like what Oates is doing at Alabama.  He just signed an extension though and Alabama has money to keep him. 

Underwood might be too old???  Not sure if we want to go younger, and he’s built back Illinois and they care more about basketball than football (I think).

I think I need to see more from Muss over at Arkansas before I cast judgment. 

 

If CDC can pull Vic for the women, I have confidence in him getting the right hire for the men.  And I thought I read on the 995 board that the money was already set aside for Shaka’s buyout and it football wouldn’t impact that money. 

I thought I had read that Underwood is dug in pretty deep at Illinois. I don't think he'd be a candidate. Illinois is much more a basketball school than a football school in terms of what their fans care about. But even then, they're not really much of a basketball school based on what they're able/not able to accomplish.

We should be emulating OU and trying to hire the most Lon Kruger-ish coach we can find. Kelvin Sampson is too old and too much of a crook, but he's in that same category. This isn't a rebuilding job, and it's not an audition for the big time. 

Given that I don't believe any of the Urban Meyer types are available (we are not getting Billy Donovan, we're not getting Jay Wright, we're not going to money whip anyone, etc etc), my first choice would be Greg McDermott at Creighton. 

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orangecat92

orangecat92 306

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Posted
3 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Hope the buyout to hire next TEXAS coach isn't steep.  Beard might be too much money.

  • Current Shaka buyout after this season is $7mill. 
  • Roughly $300k monthly payout for 2yrs gets rid of Shaka

Any info on whether current contract has offset language if Shaka gets hired elsewhere??  (Would help TEXAS recover part of buyout money.)

Need a new basketball coach to open Moody Center and fill more seats...

 

Except that the newness of the arena will trump the bad coach factor.  Everybody in Austin will want to see the new joint.

You could put a cardboard rendition of Abe Lemons and the arena will be full every time. 

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Pancho

Pancho 44492

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6 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I thought I had read that Underwood is dug in pretty deep at Illinois. I don't think he'd be a candidate. Illinois is much more a basketball school than a football school in terms of what their fans care about. But even then, they're not really much of a basketball school based on what they're able/not able to accomplish.

We should be emulating OU and trying to hire the most Lon Kruger-ish coach we can find. Kelvin Sampson is too old and too much of a crook, but he's in that same category. This isn't a rebuilding job, and it's not an audition for the big time. 

Given that I don't believe any of the Urban Meyer types are available (we are not getting Billy Donovan, we're not getting Jay Wright, we're not going to money whip anyone, etc etc), my first choice would be Greg McDermott at Creighton. 

I think you’re right about Underwood as what you just typed sounds really familiar. I thought I also heard his wife’s side of the fam is from up there???

I almost put McDermott on my list. I think he’d be a solid choice.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14491

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I thought I had read that Underwood is dug in pretty deep at Illinois. I don't think he'd be a candidate. Illinois is much more a basketball school than a football school in terms of what their fans care about. But even then, they're not really much of a basketball school based on what they're able/not able to accomplish.

We should be emulating OU and trying to hire the most Lon Kruger-ish coach we can find. Kelvin Sampson is too old and too much of a crook, but he's in that same category. This isn't a rebuilding job, and it's not an audition for the big time. 

Given that I don't believe any of the Urban Meyer types are available (we are not getting Billy Donovan, we're not getting Jay Wright, we're not going to money whip anyone, etc etc), my first choice would be Greg McDermott at Creighton. 

The fact that McDermott was a total failure at ISU doesn't scare you? 18-46 conference record. Never made it past the 1st weekend in the tournament.

Paging @Al_4_ISU, please come regale us on the Greg McDermott experience.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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17 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The fact that McDermott was a total failure at ISU doesn't scare you? 18-46 conference record. Never made it past the 1st weekend in the tournament.

Paging @Al_4_ISU, please come regale us on the Greg McDermott experience.

No, but only because he's been successful everywhere else and that one stop seems like a weird outlier compared to what he's done at Creighton and the lower tiers. Agreed, though, I would like to know more about how ISU fans see his flameout there because there's no reason a good coach shouldn't win at Iowa State. 

Tommy Amaker has been successful at Harvard in a league that doesn't offer athletic scholarships, but was a tremendous flop at Michigan. Michigan hired him on the basis of his one Sweet 16 run at Seton Hall; he was otherwise a .500 coach there, too, so it seems to me Amaker is suited for Harvard but not major college basketball. 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12409

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

The fact that McDermott was a total failure at ISU doesn't scare you? 18-46 conference record. Never made it past the 1st weekend in the tournament.

Paging @Al_4_ISU, please come regale us on the Greg McDermott experience.

The Greg McDermott experience, and the havoc it wreaked on my psyche, is the reason I've completely checked out of the current basketball season.  I don't need to do that to myself anymore.

There is nothing more frustrating than watching future NBA player after future NBA player come through the door, muck around in outdated offensive sets designed for a bunch of 6'1" white guys from Elkader, Iowa with decent jumpers and lots of scrappiness, and do absolutely jack shit in terms of results.  McDermott is the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not make the NCAA tournament.  Hell, he didn't even make the NIT.

He's proven to be an excellent mid major coach who just couldn't cut it as a high major.  Some guys are just that - perfect in a certain spot.  But when he came up to the big leagues, he just wasn't the kind of guy that could effectively manage egos of high-major players, and design offenses that took advantage of the higher talent levels.  

As a fan of a Big 12 school that will hopefully be under new leadership soon, I would be licking my chops at McDermott back in the Big 12.  He is not suited, at all, for Texas.

Edited by Al_4_ISU
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Herpa Derpa

Herpa Derpa 6113

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39 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

There is nothing more frustrating than watching future NBA player after future NBA player come through the door, muck around in outdated offensive sets designed for a bunch of 6'1" white guys from Elkader, Iowa with decent jumpers and lots of scrappiness, and do absolutely jack shit in terms of results.

So, it was an experience with an in-over-his-head guy better suited to the mid-major world, who repeatedly failed to meet the bare minimum standard despite annually recruiting top flight talent who would flounder in mediocrity until their departure, and then subsequently ball out in a way heretofore unseen?


Yeah, we already got one of those.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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8 minutes ago, Pancho said:

By this logic, neither was Juwan when Michigan hired him.

Juwan Howard was a longtime assistant for one of the 2 best developmental organizations in the NBA. Had Royal Ivey spent 10+ years with either the Heat or Spurs he'd be looked upon much more favorably than he currently is now having worked for the Thunder and Knicks orgs.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12409

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20 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

So, it was an experience with an in-over-his-head guy better suited to the mid-major world, who repeatedly failed to meet the bare minimum standard despite annually recruiting top flight talent who would flounder in mediocrity until their departure, and then subsequently ball out in a way heretofore unseen?


Yeah, we already got one of those.

Shaka's been light years better at UT than McDermott was at ISU, but yeah, there's a lot of similarities, and IMO McDermott would get worse results than Shaka has.

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ztejas

ztejas 43266

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1 hour ago, Pancho said:

By this logic, neither was Juwan when Michigan hired him.

20 years as a player in the NBA (including 2 title teams at the tail end of that) vs. 10. 6 years as an assistant in the NBA (under one of the best coaches and front offices in the NBA) vs. 4. 

And just because Juwan is seemingly panning out doesn't mean Ivey would. Texas could maybe do worse than Ivey but he'd be a pretty big shot in the dark. 

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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Posted

If you've paid any attention to Michigan play t's interesting that they've pretty much kept the some sort of open style/ offense that Beilein (who is the guy I want to go after) had up there.  It makes sense though because the Heat have run a similar movement based offense for a few years now.  

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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we're really just arguing over what kind of dumb gamble we want CDC to try next

I'm going for the "Big 12 washout / retread" gamble, which is actually the safest gamble because if McDermott sucks and we have to fire him, I can just say "what, did you want to keep Shaka Smart?" and your argument becomes invalid

some want to try the "pulling a Drexler" gamble, which seems kind of presumptuous about how recruits think, to me

I've even seen the rare "dog returning to its vomit" gamble hinted at, which, you know what, we kind of deserve that.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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Posted
40 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I totally forgot about Beilein.  This should be a no brainer.  No buyout and he’s better than all the guys who would be realistic candidates from other schools (and he’s not radioactive like Pitino or Sampson).

What are we waiting for?   Other than he’s “old” which is lame because he’s younger than Coach K, Roy Williams,etc.

 

19 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I wonder if Beilein is on the Chris Petersen path of "fuck this shit, I'm out" with regard to big-time college athletics.

If he's up for it, he seems like the obvious choice.

100% agree. I forgot he washed out in Cleveland. He'd be my first call. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45565

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On 2/21/2021 at 12:18 PM, SwanderedTalent said:

I thought I had read that Underwood is dug in pretty deep at Illinois. I don't think he'd be a candidate. Illinois is much more a basketball school than a football school in terms of what their fans care about.

Not really true, but they have historically been more successful on the court.  They'd trade a top 5 football team for a top 15 basketball team any year.

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