Fire Shaka Smart

[Horn80 6313]

I’m sick and tired of hearing announcers on TV saying Shaka is a “great” coach when his win-loss record at Texas in Big 12 clearly shows he is not.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Horn80

[orangecat92 306]

My feeling says we beat both Iowa st. & tcu, finishing 2 and 1 to land at 10 & 7.  That puts us in 7th place, losing tie breakers to OU and tech.  Win one, lose one conf. Tourney, we become one of the weakest 5 seeds ever, or a mediocre at best 6 seed. 

How we win 2 ncaa games in a row is a mystery, but I feel it happening.  

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

I don’t fucking care if he wins the national title he’s a shitty coach and should be fired. 
anyone basing hiring or firing decisions on the tournament is doing it wrong (for good or ill). That’s a single elimination crapshoot and shot can happen that doesn’t make any sense.

Its a fun way to crown a champion (my absolute favorite) but an incredibly shitty way to determine quien es mas macho. End of the day- Regular season performance shows a team and coaches quality and Smart has shown he sucks shit through a straw and no tournament result is necessary to prove that more, nor is it possible to dispel that truth. 

[Burt Macklin 19211]

23 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

Look at my scenario.  This only happens if we make it to the 2nd weekend.  People have short memories.  Nobody’s gonna remember mismanaged games etc.  The agent will most likely compare contracts, and show how many years Shakas sweet 16 peers have left on their contracts, and talk about how recruiting is tougher when players don’t know for sure coach will last 4  years, etc. 

cdc will listen.  To me this compares favorably to the Georgia football win.  Cdc will learn from past mistake or not. 

So basically you’ve set up a straw man where there would be negotiation talks if Shaka finished 6th in conference and made it to the second weekend and then tried to give CDC credit in advance for not doing it? WTF are you talking about. Shaka’s not even getting an extension discussion  unless he goes on an absolutely crazy run to at least the Final Four, and even then it would be a horrible idea. 

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:39 PM, ztejas said:

Shaka has 2 years on his deal remaining. CDC extending him after this season or even listening to an extension pitch would be mind-numbingly stupid. 

He's done it before so there is precedent.

[JesusSweatDuck 18045]

22 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If you want to extend him (providing you aren't firing him which is obviously my choice) then fine- no problem- toss him another 2 year extension.  The buy out better not increase one fucking dollar though. As long as the buyout isn't going up an extension is just window dressing meaning almost next to nothing.  

This is the correct answer if we're doing an extension (which he certainly doesn't deserve).  Give him an incentive ladened contract with zero increase in buy out, perhaps even a buy out reduction.  Didn't Mich do that to Harbaugh in the offseason?

[ztejas 44114]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

He's done it before so there is precedent.

I answered this above. I don't feel like going in circles here.

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I answered this above. I don't feel like going in circles here.

Then go in an oval

[ztejas 44114]

6 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Didn't Mich do that to Harbaugh in the offseason?

Firing Harbaugh would have cost them about $8M. They extended him for ~$4M a season through 2025, with his buyout starting at $4M and decreasing by $1M each year. 

The catch being, they are sticking with Harbaugh as their head coach. So if we want to be like Michigan football (pardon me while I go throw up in my mouth) then sure, we can kick the proverbial can down the road and hope that Shaka becomes a great basketball coach at somepoint in the next x years. Or we could just fire his ass and not waste time pussyfooting around hanging onto someone clearly not right for the job. 

[Js1 86939]

10 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

This is the correct answer if we're doing an extension (which he certainly doesn't deserve).  Give him an incentive ladened contract with zero increase in buy out, perhaps even a buy out reduction.  Didn't Mich do that to Harbaugh in the offseason?

Yeah he ain't getting fired, so extending him with incentives and no increase in the buyout is the best plan for Texas.

Either he does something with it or he's gone after 2022.  

[Machinator 32102]

I don't see why they have to do anything (if they're not willing to fire him this year). Unlike the last two years, there's been very little hot seat talk in the national media and he still has another year after '21-'22, so that should kill a lot of negative recruiting talk. The problem with Harbaugh was that he was heading into the last year of his contract.

[JesusSweatDuck 18045]

9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Firing Harbaugh would have cost them about $8M. They extended him for ~$4M a season through 2025, with his buyout starting at $4M and decreasing by $1M each year. 

The catch being, they are sticking with Harbaugh as their head coach. So if we want to be like Michigan football (pardon me while I go throw up in my mouth) then sure, we can kick the proverbial can down the road and hope that Shaka becomes a great basketball coach at somepoint in the next x years. Or we could just fire his ass and not waste time pussyfooting around hanging onto someone clearly not right for the job. 

Oh, I agree with you.  I don't want to see him extended at all, but if we DO, it better not increase his buyout $0.01.

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t fucking care if he wins the national title he’s a shitty coach and should be fired. 
anyone basing hiring or firing decisions on the tournament is doing it wrong (for good or ill). That’s a single elimination crapshoot and shot can happen that doesn’t make any sense.

Its a fun way to crown a champion (my absolute favorite) but an incredibly shitty way to determine quien es mas macho. End of the day- Regular season performance shows a team and coaches quality and Smart has shown he sucks shit through a straw and no tournament result is necessary to prove that more, nor is it possible to dispel that truth. 

This is a ridiculous take. Arguably the best team in the conference the past 2 years is coached by a guy who was routinely lambasted over his first 6 years for how atrocious a coach he was. Things don't have to remain constant because you want to be right on the internet. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

This is a ridiculous take. Arguably the best team in the conference the past 2 years is coached by a guy who was routinely lambasted over his first 6 years for how atrocious a coach he was. Things don't have to remain constant because you want to be right on the internet. 

putting that first bit of hyperbole aside, the rest of wulaw's post is 100% on point. my interpretation of the opening line to that post was not "CDC should fire Shaka even if he wins the NC", it was, "i don't care what we do in the tournament, Shaka still sucks and needs to go." again, the rest of his post would support this idea. 

[Knoxtnhorn 6262]

Is it my imagination, or have we had like 1 commitment over the past 2 years?  9ther than the guy we got a few months ago, I haven't seen much in the way of chatter, crystal balls, or even mentions on 247.

[Machinator 32102]

5 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Is it my imagination, or have we had like 1 commitment over the past 2 years?  9ther than the guy we got a few months ago, I haven't seen much in the way of chatter, crystal balls, or even mentions on 247.

Four signed players last fall. Greg was the only take in the signing class before that (didn't have that many roster spots).

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

15 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

putting that first bit of hyperbole aside, the rest of wulaw's post is 100% on point. my interpretation of the opening line to that post was not "CDC should fire Shaka even if he wins the NC", it was, "i don't care what we do in the tournament, Shaka still sucks and needs to go." again, the rest of his post would support this idea. 

And if that's true, that nothing he does in the tournament matters, then that person is exhibiting more fidelity to their need to be right about Shaka being a sorry coach than what actually happens on the court.  

Edited March 2, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[shadow_operative 15932]

on this subject, ive long said that Bill Self is the best coach in CBB for this very reason. he's easily, factually, inarguably the best regular season coach in America. and at the end of the day that's what you want in a program- to be well coached and competitive every year over the long haul of a 25-30 game season.

something i've learned over the years is that most CBB fans have some pretty fucking crazy notions about the tourney and its importance. i assume that some time in the not-too-distant future we'll start to see more "random" programs (Oregon, TTU, Houston type programs) winning titles, due to the increasing parity in CBB/upswing in HS/college talent, but for now, you're either a blue blood or you have an elite coach (or both), or you really don't even have a chance to win it all. here's every tourney winning coach over the last 20 years:

Coach K- 3x 

Gary Williams

Jim Boeheim

Jim Calhoun- 2x

Roy Williams- 3x

Billy Donovan- 2x

Bill Self

Coach Cal

Rick Pitino

Kevin Ollie (lol)

Jay Wright x2

Tony Bennett

 

nothing but blue bloods and elite coaches are winning the tourney, which means that you have to go through those guys and their programs if you want to win one yourself. if the program that you support is not one of this handful of blue bloods/does not have an elite HC, then your focus should be 98% on regular season success, and you should be pretty fucking thrilled every time you find yourself in the second weekend of the tourney. i don't know why so many fans seemingly base 90% of their judgment of a HC on what he does in the tourney, because that's just not sensible or pragmatic at all. it's a fun, wild, unpredictable, single elimination tournament that only a handful of teams have a chance to win. what your program does in the regular season year in and year out is what you *should* be basing the bulk of your judgement on. folks just don't seem to look at it that way though. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

6 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

And if that's true, that nothing he does in the tournament matters, then that person is exhibiting more fidelity to their need to be right about Shaka being a sorry coach than what actually happens on the court.  

let me rephrase- "regardless of what happens in the 2021 ncaa tourney, i already know enough about Shaka to know that he's not fit to be the HC at UT." that was my interpretation of wulaw's opening line, based on the rest of his post. 

[Machinator 32102]

The possibility is so remote that it's not even worth discussing. Kevin Ollie seems to be the template for that scenario but there is no Shabazz Napier on this roster, I don't think.

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

The possibility is so remote that it's not even worth discussing. Kevin Ollie seems to be the template for that scenario but there is no Shabazz Napier on this roster, I don't think.

plus he took over a blue blood program with championship DNA and infrastructure. we ain't that. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

6 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

This is a ridiculous take. Arguably the best team in the conference the past 2 years is coached by a guy who was routinely lambasted over his first 6 years for how atrocious a coach he was. Things don't have to remain constant because you want to be right on the internet. 

It’s not about being right on the internet and it doesn’t apply in particular to Shaka, it’s a generalized belief that what you do over 35 games times 5 years is more important than what you do in any 1 stretch of between 1 and 6 games. 
It’s more an argument on not letting the flimsiness or vagaries of the tournament color your opinion on the quality of the coach. 

[GringoSalado 1652]

^ I take your point to be "he had one hot streak that landed him this job. A second hot streak 10 years later* shouldn't get him extended, or even save his job at this point."

 

 

* 220-221, whatever it takes

[HtownHorn 15243]

46 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It’s not about being right on the internet and it doesn’t apply in particular to Shaka, it’s a generalized belief that what you do over 35 games times 5 years is more important than what you do in any 1 stretch of between 1 and 6 games. 
It’s more an argument on not letting the flimsiness or vagaries of the tournament color your opinion on the quality of the coach. 

For instance, let's say Texas finishes 1-4, 0-3 in the regular season, 1-1 in the tournament. That would be his 5th non winning Big 12 season in 6 tries.

Somehow he gets a 6 seed, and survives a 11 seed upset, while the 3 seed in our bracket gets upset. Let's also say the 10 seed goes on a run in our side of the bracket as well, leading Texas to a Sweet 16 meeting with said 10 seed. Oh what do you know, the 12 seed takes out the 1 seed in other Sweet 16 game. Now Texas will have faced a 11, 14, 10, and 12 seed to make it to the Final 4. Does he really get credit for that magical run?

Edited March 2, 2021 by HtownHorn

[dcar00 14902]

7 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

This is a ridiculous take. Arguably the best team in the conference the past 2 years is coached by a guy who was routinely lambasted over his first 6 years for how atrocious a coach he was. Things don't have to remain constant because you want to be right on the internet. 

baylor had no choice but to wait.  we don't but...we don't give a rip.

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

37 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

For instance, let's say Texas finishes 1-4, 0-3 in the regular season, 1-1 in the tournament. That would be his 5th non winning Big 12 season in 6 tries.

Somehow he gets a 6 seed, and survives a 11 seed upset, while the 3 seed in our bracket gets upset. Let's also say the 10 seed goes on a run in our side of the bracket as well, leading Texas to a Sweet 16 meeting with said 10 seed. Oh what do you know, the 12 seed takes out the 1 seed in other Sweet 16 game. Now Texas will have faced a 11, 14, 10, and 12 seed to make it to the Final 4. Does he really get credit for that magical run?

You're basically describing at least 2 or 3 of Baylor's elite 8 runs. 

[Machinator 32102]

Just now, Catdaddyhorn said:

You're basically describing at least 2 or 3 of Baylor's elite 8 runs. 

Funny you should write that just as Baylor just locked up their first conference title in over 70 years.

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

12 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Funny you should write that just as Baylor just locked up their first conference title in over 70 years.

As I said before they have arguably been the best team in the conference over the last 2 years. 

[Js1 86939]

14 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You're basically describing at least 2 or 3 of Baylor's elite 8 runs. 

I remember those, I was at NRG for that 2010 Baylor E8 run.  14, 11, 10 and then ran into #1 Duke.   They did the same thing in 2012 - 14, 11, 10 and then ran into #1 Kentucky. 

Sounds like KU in 2011 too when they lost to VCU - 16, 9, 12 and 11.  But they lost to #11 Shaka Smart. 

The NCAA tournament is both about being good but also running into a lot of luck when it's a one and done thing - you run into a hot shooting team or a team gelling at the right time and lose early or your regional is full of upsets and you keep running into lower seeded teams all the way to the Elite 8. 

Or you lose on a half-court banked in 3 to an 11 seed because that's March. (FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK)

[HookEm 2492]

My view on Shaka is that he is a disappointment and Texas can do better.... But he is also not as bad as many on here think that he is.

College head coaches have to wear a lot of hats: recruiting (both identifying and landing talent), media, player development, boosters, in game coaching, staff development, player retention, etc. Shaka is not terrible at all of them. I would say that he is actually elite in recruiting, which then sets expectations, which then expose how bad he is at some of the others.

I also think our view on Shaka should be heavily weighted toward the later half of his tenure here. He was only 37 when he got the job and SHOULD still be learning and improving. The last 3 years haven’t been terrible. In 2019 we won the NIT, but should have made the tourney. Last year we probably would have made the tourney. And this year we will be a 4-6 seed.

For clarity, I still think we should fire him and can do better. He will never be Bill Self or Tom Izzo and that is what we should be shooting for.

[shadow_operative 15932]

45 minutes ago, HookEm said:

My view on Shaka is that he is a disappointment and Texas can do better.... But he is also not as bad as many on here think that he is.

yeah he's actually worse. most UT hoops fans think that Shaka was at least a great mid major coach at VCU, when the fact of the matter is that, for a 12 year period, VCU employed Jeff Capel, Anthony Grant, Shaka Smart, and Will Wade as it's respective HCs, and you would have a *very* tough time convincing any objective person that Shaka wasn't the worst coach out of those four. other than his absolutely inexplicable run to the final four, in a tourney that his team should never have been in, the man has *zero* career accomplishments in nearly two decades as a HC.

i can't explain why you can't see that you're a Shaka Smart Stan. every single piece of statistical, empirical, and anecdotal evidence proves that Shaka Smart is beyond out of his depth in the Big XII, and merely a good recruiter/bad coach in a mid major conference, and yet almost daily you find yourself in here championing Shaka in some form or fashion. fyi- it's getting fucking old. you are not the objective voice of reason that you think you are; you're a delusional Shaka Smart Stan who keeps defending and advocating for a coach who is literally no better than Tom Penders while scoring half the points and playing godawful, ugly ass basketball. i really wish you would stop, but something tells me that no matter what the record shows, you'll still be in here defending and pimping Shaka, for no discernible reason whatsoever. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

55 minutes ago, HookEm said:

. In 2019 we won the NIT, but should have made the tourney.

on what fucking planet??

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

57 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Last year we probably would have made the tourney.

wrong again. the bracket matrix consensus from last year had Texas nowhere near the tourney. for you to point to last year and say, "we were gonna be in the tourney!" as if it's a)true, and b)in any way reflective of how last year went, is fucking stupid.

Shaka was *done* here with his shitass performance last year until multiple injuries forced him to start playing Kai Jones, Royce Hamm, and Brock Cunningham, who collectively saved his job after his previously abysmal performance with his preferred players. your rose colored picture of every Shaka Smart fuck up is transparent as shit. your motives remain a mystery. either way, stop. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

The last 3 years haven’t been terrible. 
 

the last three years:

55-45 overall, 26-25 in the league, and one (upcoming) tourney appearance. excluding that magical NIT run we are 50-45 over the last three years, while being favored in no fewer than 66% of our games.

2019:

back to back home losses to RADFORD and VCU in the non conference. we ended the regular season by going 6-12. SIX AND FUCKING TWELVE. when went 11-18 over our final 29 games, and yet you paint this season as a success. GTFOH.

2020: 

we finished #61 in Kenpom. we finished ranked #153 in AdjO, a nearly impossible feat for a program of our stature, and finished in the mid-low 200's in nearly every major offensive metric tracked by kenpom. and once again, Shaka was proper fucked until dumb luck forced him to play his own outcasts, serendipitously saving his job. and yet you again paint this as a rosy picture. again: FUCK OFF.

2021: do i even have to describe this season? his best, most complete roster ever, one which every poster worth a damn here agrees is a Final Four caliber roster, and yet we find ourselves 5-6 in our last 11, and plummeting in every rating system save the retarded fucking human polls. and yet again, you not only defend, but damn near champion this bullshit and tell us that Shaka really isn't all that bad, and neither are the last three years.

get. the fuck. out of here. you were a clueless know-it-all on shaggy, and changing your posting handle doesn't change the fact that you still don't know shit about fuck when it comes to basketball over here on surly. get over this retarded idea that you're the lone objective poster here (your shtick is so transparent), and kindly fuck off with your ignorant, uneducated bullshit about how everyone here except you is actually wrong when it comes to Shaka. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by shadow_operative

[HookEm 2492]

Triggered much?

[HookEm 2492]

This is why you have ruined this board. I post that I think we need to fire Shaka, but I simply don’t think he is as bad as you. Bad enough to fire, but not the anti-christ. Somehow this makes me a Shaka “Stan”.

So you post 4 back to back longcat posts (that I stopped reading after the first paragraph) to tell me I’m wrong.

You are everything wrong with modern society. You push polarizing views and brand people who are moderate as the other polar view. You incite arguments when there are none. You don’t have the intellect to make a concise point so you vomit out 10,000 words of ranting garbage.

Fuck off.

[C-Man 27685]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

on what fucking planet??

 

I assume he means that team should've performed better during the regular season and gotten into the big boy tournament.

[UTDD 362]

4 hours ago, HookEm said:

My view on Shaka is that he is a disappointment and Texas can do better.... But he is also not as bad as many on here think that he is.

College head coaches have to wear a lot of hats: recruiting (both identifying and landing talent), media, player development, boosters, in game coaching, staff development, player retention, etc. Shaka is not terrible at all of them. I would say that he is actually elite in recruiting, which then sets expectations, which then expose how bad he is at some of the others.

I also think our view on Shaka should be heavily weighted toward the later half of his tenure here. He was only 37 when he got the job and SHOULD still be learning and improving. The last 3 years haven’t been terrible. In 2019 we won the NIT, but should have made the tourney. Last year we probably would have made the tourney. And this year we will be a 4-6 seed.

For clarity, I still think we should fire him and can do better. He will never be Bill Self or Tom Izzo and that is what we should be shooting for.

I would agree his recruiting has actually been pretty good, but I have to disagree on a few issues: 1) The way we ended 2019, there is no way we belonged in the tourney, I think we were completely and fairly slotted in the right spot.  If we had gotten hot near the end, maybe one can argue it's a different story/closer case but we did the opposite.  2) I think the most obvious thing from many years with his coaching is that Shaka simply isn't an innovative or even average offensive coach.  I don't need to regurgitate stat after stat, virtually anyone with the eye test alone probably can agree with that statement.  You also have some players that are not elite at something doing that too often offensively, while players elite at something else are not being used that way enough.

But for me, the real issue is that the players brought to campus are not developed well enough, and that translates to results never seeming to match the talent level.  I could understand a middling record if our talent was subpar, but I just don't believe that has been the case.   

He's coached Texas recently to 8-10 (6th), 8-10 (6th), 9-9 (Tied for third I think), and right now 9-6 (5th).  Granted, this is a very tough conference, but this a 34-35 conference record recently, and anyone can see the recent recruiting Big 12 ranks (2nd, 3rd, 10th because Greg Brown was the only signee, but I'd still say that's solid, and 2nd).  So for me, the real question is if we can find another coach that can maintain, improve, or not go down too much with recruiting talent, but actually coach them to a higher level of performance.  I'd love to hear who that coach might be, because I admit I am sometimes thinking about this more often than I should (when I am supposed to be focused on other things).  Really...love to hear it, lol.  

We all know we are a football school, but I still think the basketball program can reasonably fight for the Big 12 title a lot of years and be a perennial tourney participant...with occasional deep runs with the right combination of luck and talent, etc.  I don't reasonably expect a routine Final Four contender (but it would be nice to end up with a nice Baylor run or in a dream world have two decades of Kansas...) whereas in football I would have higher expectations.   

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

6 hours ago, HookEm said:

This is why you have ruined this board. I post that I think we need to fire Shaka, but I simply don’t think he is as bad as you. Bad enough to fire, but not the anti-christ. Somehow this makes me a Shaka “Stan”.

So you post 4 back to back longcat posts (that I stopped reading after the first paragraph) to tell me I’m wrong.

You are everything wrong with modern society. You push polarizing views and brand people who are moderate as the other polar view. You incite arguments when there are none. You don’t have the intellect to make a concise point so you vomit out 10,000 words of ranting garbage.

Fuck off.

He posts like a political campaign chairman incessantly trying to bludgeon everyone with a singular message. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

7 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

wrong again. the bracket matrix consensus from last year had Texas nowhere near the tourney. for you to point to last year and say, "we were gonna be in the tourney!" as if it's a)true, and b)in any way reflective of how last year went, is fucking stupid.

Shaka was *done* here with his shitass performance last year until multiple injuries forced him to start playing Kai Jones, Royce Hamm, and Brock Cunningham, who collectively saved his job after his previously abysmal performance with his preferred players. your rose colored picture of every Shaka Smart fuck up is transparent as shit. your motives remain a mystery. either way, stop. 

Define nowhere near the tourney. Because I'm looking at this link and it says something else. 

[HookEm 2492]

Ok I probably overstated 2019. We were 8-10 in conference and had some nice wins. And 6 of our conference losses were by 5 points or less. We were much better than our record as the NIT run showed, but that team was never going to make the tourney with that record.


No point in debating player development. Again, I don’t think he is “good” at it, but I also don’t think he is terrible. Even with the greatest coaches, not every player develops to their potential, so there are plenty to pick as examples to prove the point. I would give Shaka a C here. I mean this year’s team is basically the same as last year’s but they are a good bit better.

[HookEm 2492]

Last year we were in a 4-way tie for third in the Big-12. How many 9-9 Big 12 teams have missed the tourney in the last 5 years?

Winning a game in the Big-12 Tournament would have got us in for sure IMO and we closed the year pretty hot.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Ok I probably overstated 2019. We were 8-10 in conference and had some nice wins. And 6 of our conference losses were by 5 points or less. We were much better than our record as the NIT run showed, but that team was never going to make the tourney with that record.


No point in debating player development. Again, I don’t think he is “good” at it, but I also don’t think he is terrible. Even with the greatest coaches, not every player develops to their potential, so there are plenty to pick as examples to prove the point. I would give Shaka a C here. I mean this year’s team is basically the same as last year’s but they are a good bit better.

Shakas' skill set is that he is/was at least a great motivator.  He created a culture while he was at VCU, and surrounded himself with really good X's, and O's guys. Wade (a huge prick, but a pretty good X's and O's guy), and current VCU coach Rhodes (who just won coach of the year for a second time in the A-10) were his 2 main assistants, and they're the ones who made HAVOC work.  His success eroded when they both left. He only had one trick, and that was press, press, press.

He made 2-3 star kids believe they could win. He also made his FF run with most of Anthony Grants recruits. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

7 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

the last three years:

55-45 overall, 26-25 in the league, and one (upcoming) tourney appearance. excluding that magical NIT run we are 50-45 over the last three years, while being favored in no fewer than 66% of our games.

2019:

back to back home losses to RADFORD and VCU in the non conference. we ended the regular season by going 6-12. SIX AND FUCKING TWELVE. when went 11-18 over our final 29 games, and yet you paint this season as a success. GTFOH.

2020: 

we finished #61 in Kenpom. we finished ranked #153 in AdjO, a nearly impossible feat for a program of our stature, and finished in the mid-low 200's in nearly every major offensive metric tracked by kenpom. and once again, Shaka was proper fucked until dumb luck forced him to play his own outcasts, serendipitously saving his job. and yet you again paint this as a rosy picture. again: FUCK OFF.

2021: do i even have to describe this season? his best, most complete roster ever, one which every poster worth a damn here agrees is a Final Four caliber roster, and yet we find ourselves 5-6 in our last 11, and plummeting in every rating system save the retarded fucking human polls. and yet again, you not only defend, but damn near champion this bullshit and tell us that Shaka really isn't all that bad, and neither are the last three years.

get. the fuck. out of here. you were a clueless know-it-all on shaggy, and changing your posting handle doesn't change the fact that you still don't know shit about fuck when it comes to basketball over here on surly. get over this retarded idea that you're the lone objective poster here (your shtick is so transparent), and kindly fuck off with your ignorant, uneducated bullshit about how everyone here except you is actually wrong when it comes to Shaka. 

What was his shaggy handle?  

[HookEm 2492]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

What was his shaggy handle?  

He doesn't know.

[HookEm 2492]

I made this chart just now and think it sums up how I feel about Shaka:

It shows win% in the Big-12 regular season over all periods of Shaka's tenure here.  Whether you are talking about this year (21), last 3 years (19-21), or entire tenure, Shaka has done no better than 4th vs. his peers... but no worse than 6th. 

Does that mean we should fire him?  Probably.  Does that make him the worst coach in the big 12?  No.  

[Machinator 32102]

2 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Does that mean we should fire him?  Probably.  Does that make him the worst coach in the big 12?  No.  

This is illogical. We are not comparing coaches on an even playing field. Shaka benefits from a school that (despite some limitations with facilities and fan apathy) can recruit at a high level based on brand and location.

[HookEm 2492]

5 minutes ago, Machinator said:

This is illogical. We are not comparing coaches on an even playing field. Shaka benefits from a school that (despite some limitations with facilities and fan apathy) can recruit at a high level based on brand and location.

Do you think Shaka would do worse at ISU, K-State, TCU and Oklahoma than their respective coaches?

[Burt Macklin 19211]

7 hours ago, HookEm said:

This is why you have ruined this board. I post that I think we need to fire Shaka, but I simply don’t think he is as bad as you. Bad enough to fire, but not the anti-christ. Somehow this makes me a Shaka “Stan”.

So you post 4 back to back longcat posts (that I stopped reading after the first paragraph) to tell me I’m wrong.

You are everything wrong with modern society. You push polarizing views and brand people who are moderate as the other polar view. You incite arguments when there are none. You don’t have the intellect to make a concise point so you vomit out 10,000 words of ranting garbage.

Fuck off.

To be fair, your take was extremely shitty and riddled with inaccuracies and a lack of context. 
 

14 minutes ago, HookEm said:

I made this chart just now and think it sums up how I feel about Shaka:

It shows win% in the Big-12 regular season over all periods of Shaka's tenure here.  Whether you are talking about this year (21), last 3 years (19-21), or entire tenure, Shaka has done no better than 4th vs. his peers... but no worse than 6th. 

Does that mean we should fire him?  Probably.  Does that make him the worst coach in the big 12?  No.  

Your chart is a really weird attempt to smooth over his tenure by factoring in the 2021 season into every year you show. He’s 49-56 in conference and has only been above .500 twice in his tenure. His best season was with Barnes players. He’s had plenty of time to get his guys in here and his best season so far has us 5th in conference with a loaded roster. He sucks and should be fired. 

[HookEm 2492]

Wut?  I'm not combining 18 and 21 and skipping 19 and 20.  This is last 1 year, last 2 years, last 3 years, last 4, etc.  How is that weird?  Would it be better to just judge him on the 17-19 seasons?