Fire Shaka Smart

[Mike "Wags" Wagner 6]

24 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

year 1 was slightly above decent.  year 2 was a complete abortion.  year 3 was pretty much the definition of decent.  

year 2 was so bad that it probably drags the overall rating down a bit, but 2 of shaka's 3 seasons have been "decent."

That's a pretty fucking low bar to reach decent.

[BigOrange1 6422]

3 minutes ago, Guest Pass said:

Year 2 wasn't an abortion. We finished 70th in Pomeroy as opposed to say Mizzou who finished 150th. We were a young team in a conference stacked with good teams. It's called rebuilding. It happens. We still got a top-5 recruiting class to come in the next year. That says a lot for our coach. Year 2 sucked, but it wasn't an abortion.

they went 11-22 and 4-14 in the big 12.  that's an abortion.

[Guest Pass]

Just now, BigOrange1 said:

they went 11-22 and 4-14 in the big 12.  that's an abortion.

You're over-simplifying it. Our record looks like that because we played in the strongest conference in America. You have to drill down just a little farther into the data than Win-Loss record. That's why it helps to look at a system like Pomeroy that uses margin of victory and other data points to form the most unbiased rating of teams possible. Having a rebuilding year in last year's Big12 field is just shit luck and not necessarily an indictment of the coach.

[BigOrange1 6422]

8 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Year 1 and year 3 were not decent. No NCAA tournament wins is not a decent season, it's crappy. The baseline should be top half of the Big 12 matched with tournament wins. Anything less is a shit year.

20-12 and 11-7 in conference (good enough for 4th place) is absolutely decent.  a long ass buzzer beater going against you in your final game of the season doesn't change that.

why is it impossible for some of you to be reasonable in regards to this?  year 2 was dog shit and this year was disappointing given preseason expectations plus just watching the product on the court.  that doesn't mean you retroactively go back and shit on every single thing that's happened in shaka's 3 years.

[BigOrange1 6422]

...and camelback does exactly the opposite.  tries to shine shit and call it gold.

[immortal13 4059]

19 minutes ago, Guest Pass said:

Year 2 wasn't an abortion. We finished 70th in Pomeroy as opposed to say Mizzou who finished 150th. We were a young team in a conference stacked with good teams. It's called rebuilding. It happens. We still got a top-5 recruiting class to come in the next year. That says a lot for our coach. Year 2 sucked, but it wasn't an abortion.

Mizzou is not our standard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Camel]

8 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

...and camelback does exactly the opposite.  tries to shine shit and call it gold.

My point is that there's more to Year 2 than win loss record. It was a rebuilding year. The point was to establish a culture that can be a foundation for building a great basketball program over the next 5 years. For you to judge it solely on win-loss record may be overlooking the big picture.

[immortal13 4059]

At the end of the day, wins and losses are all that fucking matter.

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

When guys start transferring and guys turning pro and you sucked already it doesn't bode well for the future. Unless there are Grad Transfers ready to play and i'm not sure you see a ton of grad transfers in basketball we will be filling the roster I guess with more freshmen? But hasn't most to all recruits signed already? How much more room do we even have?

[Machinator 32097]

There were about 130 grad transfers in DI basketball in 2017.

[immortal13 4059]

17 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

When guys start transferring and guys turning pro and you sucked already it doesn't bode well for the future. Unless there are Grad Transfers ready to play and i'm not sure you see a ton of grad transfers in basketball we will be filling the roster I guess with more freshmen? But hasn't most to all recruits signed already? How much more room do we even have?

Exactly why we are fucked. I'm sick and fucking tired of being embarassed by this athletic program. But hey, we make the most money so it's all good!!

[PatSolitanojr 518]

I understand that we play in the most competitive conference and Shaka wants to recruit elite talent, but I wouldn't mind him recruiting guys that would buy in to his philosophy instead of changing his philosophy to appease recruits. 

[HtownHorn 14486]

1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

20-12 and 11-7 in conference (good enough for 4th place) is absolutely decent.  a long ass buzzer beater going against you in your final game of the season doesn't change that.

why is it impossible for some of you to be reasonable in regards to this?  year 2 was dog shit and this year was disappointing given preseason expectations plus just watching the product on the court.  that doesn't mean you retroactively go back and shit on every single thing that's happened in shaka's 3 years.

Shaka was hired to do better than the coach that was fired. He hasn't. Getting upset in the 1st round of the tournament doesn't make a decent season. That should be the baseline. When the coach fails to reach that baseline it's a failure.

[BigOrange1 6422]

so first it was finish in the top half of the conference and win a tourney game.  now that you've realized he did in fact finish in the top half of the conference, only a tournament win is the new bar.  

i'm not even defending the overall job shaka has done here.  but 2 of his 3 years (especially the first year), meet pretty much any reasonable person's definition of "decent."  we want to be better than that and that is perfectly fine with me.  i just don't understand why people try and shit on every single thing in order to make their points. 

[Mike "Wags" Wagner 6]

10 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

so first it was finish in the top half of the conference and win a tourney game.  now that you've realized he did in fact finish in the top half of the conference, only a tournament win is the new bar.  

Uh, your 1st point contradicts your 2nd one.

[immortal13 4059]

11 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

so first it was finish in the top half of the conference and win a tourney game.  now that you've realized he did in fact finish in the top half of the conference, only a tournament win is the new bar.  

i'm not even defending the overall job shaka has done here.  but 2 of his 3 years (especially the first year), meet pretty much any reasonable person's definition of "decent."  we want to be better than that and that is perfectly fine with me.  i just don't understand why people try and shit on every single thing in order to make their points. 

My issue is that we are heading in the wrong direction, and I cannot fathom any possibility that we won't be worse next year.  

[Goo Punch 4275]

3 hours ago, Guest Pass said:

You need to wait as long as it takes. Sorry that's not what you want to hear but that's reality. There's not much Shaka can do about his best and most experienced player battling cancer. That's a blow that wasn't expected. Otherwise the trajectory of the program is reasonable. I'm fine with critiquing it, but when we start jumping to conclusions like some other coach is gonna walk in here and work miracles because "Shaka just doesn't understand basketball" or some shit, I will step in and call you out on it.

“I will step in and call you on it”, lmao, you won’t even register for the site. Yeah, way to take a stand.

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

“I will step in and call you on it”, lmao, you won’t even register for the site. Yeah, way to take a stand.

 

1 hour ago, Guest Pass said:

You're over-simplifying it. Our record looks like that because we played in the strongest conference in America. You have to drill down just a little farther into the data than Win-Loss record. That's why it helps to look at a system like Pomeroy that uses margin of victory and other data points to form the most unbiased rating of teams possible. Having a rebuilding year in last year's Big12 field is just shit luck and not necessarily an indictment of the coach.

Shaka?

[Majorcholas 507]

1 hour ago, Guest Pass said:

You're over-simplifying it. Our record looks like that because we played in the strongest conference in America. You have to drill down just a little farther into the data than Win-Loss record. That's why it helps to look at a system like Pomeroy that uses margin of victory and other data points to form the most unbiased rating of teams possible. Having a rebuilding year in last year's Big12 field is just shit luck and not necessarily an indictment of the coach.

This reads like texags.

 

dude gets paid a lot of money to win games. That’s an indictment from outside.

i think he’s too soft on the kids and now they are leaving. That’s an indictment from inside.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Majorcholas

[BigOrange1 6422]

6 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

My issue is that we are heading in the wrong direction, and I cannot fathom any possibility that we won't be worse next year.  

now this is a legitimate take.  i'm not super optimistic about next year either, but he's getting it regardless so might as well just watch and see what happens.  

[Machinator 32097]

9 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

 

Shaka?

No, then his name would be "Guest shoot a contested 28-footer with 25 seconds left on the shot clock."

[Guest House]

8 minutes ago, Majorcholas said:

i think he’s too soft on the kids and now they are leaving. That’s an indictment from inside.

They're transferring because they're good players who deserve playing time in Division 1 basketball but won't get it here because our standards are too high.

[LoneStarBiker 145]

1 minute ago, Guest House said:

They're transferring because they're good players who deserve playing time in Division 1 basketball but won't get it here because our standards are too high.

Standards are too high?  We're the University of Texas dammit. Do we need to fly a fucking banner again?

[Knoxtnhorn 5929]

I've been on the fence re: Shaka.

As others have pointed out, I still, for the life of me, don't understand why he hasn't run havoc.  I mean, how many coaches out there have just decided to randomly change philosophies midstream (or should I say, mid-career)?  And, it's not as if the changes have improved matters.  Surely he's intelligent enough to know his strengths (player's coach, energy, recruiting) and his weaknesses (half-motherfuckingcourt- offense) and reconcile them, yes?

[Knoxtnhorn 5929]

To add.  At some point I'd think, "Well, I was successful at VCU running X.  Thus far, running Y hasn't done shit (with better players), why not try X again?"  At the very least, it's more fan-friendly.

[immortal13 4059]

9 minutes ago, LoneStarBiker said:

Standards are too high?  We're the University of Texas dammit. Do we need to fly a fucking banner again?

We need to be lighting the fucking tower again. Sadly, I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen again.

[dieucla98 2936]

Year 1 - mildly better than decent.

Year 2 - dogshit

Year 3 - decent

I can concede that.

However... We aren't paying the 11th highest salary in the land to be decent. We aren't paying north of $3M a year to be ranked in the 30's in Pomeroy. We aren't donating to this damn athletics program to field a basketball team that has played in 2 NCAA tournament games in 3 years and lost them both. That shit is not the standard of fucking Texas A&M let alone here yet, here we are.

Edited March 29, 2018 by dieucla98

[BigOrange1 6422]

5 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

Year 1 - mildly better than decent.

Year 2 - dogshit

Year 3 - decent

I can concede that.

However... We aren't paying the 11th highest salary in the land to be decent. We aren't paying north of $3M a year to be ranked in the 30's in Pomeroy. We aren't donating to this damn athletics program to field a basketball team that has played in 2 NCAA tournament games in 3 years and lost them both. That shit is not the standard of fucking Texas A&M let alone here yet, here we are.

and that's a perfectly reasonable take.

[Machinator 32097]

38 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

We need to be lighting the fucking tower again. Sadly, I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen again.

Well, we did less than a week ago. It would be nice to light the tower other parts of the year, though.

[immortal13 4059]

22 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

Year 1 - mildly better than decent.

Year 2 - dogshit

Year 3 - decent

I can concede that.

However... We aren't paying the 11th highest salary in the land to be decent. We aren't paying north of $3M a year to be ranked in the 30's in Pomeroy. We aren't donating to this damn athletics program to field a basketball team that has played in 2 NCAA tournament games in 3 years and lost them both. That shit is not the standard of fucking Texas A&M let alone here yet, here we are.

I disagree that getting knocked out in the first round of the NCAA is even decent

[formermav43 4599]

2 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I disagree that getting knocked out in the first round of the NCAA is even decent

I don’t think you have a good handle on what “decent” means. 

I know this is the internet, but it’s ok to think our results aren’t what we want without digging in on ridiculous hyperbole.

[Goo Punch 4275]

The honest truth is that this year on paper actually looks way better than it did in person. We “played in a tough conference”, and we “made the tournament”. I put these in quotes because it’s all that can be/is said about this season. I’m sick of it. We’re we well coached? No. We’re we even competent offensively? No. Did we blow a litany if games that we should have won? Yes. Did we actually run one of the worst offenses in major college ball? Yes. Did we see any sort of marked improvement as the season went along? No. Did we struggle to even make an entry pass to Mo freaking Bamba? YES!

Jesus, I don’t even want to keep going. Anyone claiming that Shaka has done a find job or yhatbhe simply needs more time is being willfully ignorant. At this point he is *at best* an inverse Tom Penders- great at one side of the ball, inept at the other, without any of the tourney wins. And he gets paid more than all but 10 (maybe 11 now) coaches in the country. This argument is disrespectful to anyone with a lick of basketball awareness. There is no positive argument to be made for the job that's been done, and there is no glowing outlook for what the future holds. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Etexhorn13 3036]

Anyone that sits through a game watching this offense on a regular basis and calls it decent is blind. A win here and there against good teams makes you feel good but it’s pretty obvious to me when I’m watching a bad basketball team. 

[Machinator 32097]

Yeah, basically what Derka Goo Punch said, but in not so many words.

[immortal13 4059]

59 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I don’t think you have a good handle on what “decent” means. 

I know this is the internet, but it’s ok to think our results aren’t what we want without digging in on ridiculous hyperbole.

Or maybe you just have low standards and expectations. Losing in the first round to fucking Nevada is not "decent" in my book, but then again I'm not the type of guy that settles for subpar results. 

[BigOrange1 6422]

1 hour ago, Etexhorn13 said:

Anyone that sits through a game watching this offense on a regular basis and calls it decent is blind. A win here and there against good teams makes you feel good but it’s pretty obvious to me when I’m watching a bad basketball team. 

no one is calling the offense decent.  just the results (in 2 of the 3 years).  not good, not great, not outstanding.  just decent.

[immortal13 4059]

[HornPhD 1364]

Texas' next coach needs to know how to coach on offense. Maybe recruit some guys who have high basketball IQs. And there has to be a couple of high school kids in TX who nail 3s consistently.

Edited March 29, 2018 by HornPhD

[Goo Punch 4275]

38 minutes ago, HornPhD said:

Texas' next coach needs to know how to coach on offense. Maybe recruit some guys who have high basketball IQs. And there has to be a couple of high school kids in TX who nail 3s consistently.

Musselman.

[Sealman81 0]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:09 PM, Kafka said:

Shaka is kind of in limbo. He isn't doing as well as most of us thought he would but he isn't doing horrible, either. CDC will probably not fire Shaka without giving him every chance to succeed. Fenves is probably not eager to fire Shaka. My guess is that Shaka keeps his job so long as he runs a clean program, makes March Madness, recruits great, and improves. I am really interested to see how CDC helps Shaka improve.

I would imagine that CDC will let Shaka run his program.  I fervently hope an extension will only occur if we have REAL progress.  Firing Shaka now would be stupid, although probably not as stupid as UTA firing their coach.

[txhorns 2408]

We had the very definition of a decent season this year but that should be the minimum for Texas.  So far in 3 seasons from Shaka we have gotten what should be our floor 2 years and an absolute dogshit season.  

 

Unlike a lot of people on here I'm willing to forgive Shaka for the 2nd season because Barnes left nothing on the roster for that year.  Most of that is on Barnes but Shaka should have found a pg somewhere last year.

 

This year I'm very concerned that the offense didn't improve like it should have given the roster.  The offense we are running needs shooters and our only real shooting threat missed most of the season.  While that explains some of the ineptitude it doesn't explain why adjustments were not made.

 

Next year I'm more optomistic than others.  I think we will win 22 games before tournaments start.  That optomism partly comes from our players having more experience and having a more complete roster.  Partly it's from other Big 12 teams losing a a lot of contribution.  We need to see a more fluid offense and better results in the NCAA tournament or shaka should be gone.

[joe dillon 11]

PLEASE LET HIM GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   It just was a really bad choice.

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Oh my god, this arguing over what constitutes “decent” and whether or not we have gotten that from Shaka; stahp. We can spend 100 pages having little inane arguments like this, but why? There is zero debate about the job that has been done here. It has been *well* below the standard that we expected when we hired Shaka.

Flash back to March of 2015. You know that Rick is going to get fired, but you have no clue who his replacement will be. Doc Brown drops in and shows you our recruiting class rankings, our season records, and our national rankings on KenPom over the next three seasons; are you happy? Are you even close to happy? No. No man. Shit no. You’d be angry and indignant. How the hell could anyone even come here and recruit like that yet do so poorly? But because Shaka is a pretty good guy and has earned himself a bunch of fans we’re gonna sit here invent arguments about inanities and convince ourselves that he’s doing fine. No he’s not. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Goo Punch

[joe dillon 11]

the bottom line is that if he stays and does somewhat better we are really screwed ----------------------

[Bingo 4]

Shaka hasn't brought any of the "Havoc" that was promised and he's already had a Texas roster to do it with Prince, Isiah, and co.. He's a failure. And next year is going to be so much worse. 

[Machinator 32097]

8 minutes ago, joe dillon said:

the bottom line is that if he stays and does somewhat better we are really screwed ----------------------

So you're rooting for the tank, then?

[joe dillon 11]

it doesnt matter ---either way we are screwed til a new coach comes

[Mike "Wags" Wagner 6]

50-50 over 3 seasons.

37 minutes ago, Machinator said:

So you're rooting for the tank, then?

They don't have to tank. They just aren't going to be good.

[Nuge 1962]

I wanted Shaka to succeed but when I have the occasion to watch a Texas basketball game the team looks lost and poorly coached.

With the exodus of talent from the team I just can't see how we can improve.  I don't have much hope for next year.

[joe dillon 11]

there is no hope if he is back----he couldnt coach the studs so how can he coach the  Fish