Fire Shaka Smart

[GreenspointTexas 9556]

My bad, 20 million dollars is way too much for us. Yall are right, lollll

 

Lets let our program wallow in shittiness like A&M. Thats the ticket

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Greenspoint is the epitome of the "toxic, entitled" fanbase stereotype that the national media has built up about Texas in recent years (much longer than that, really, but especially this decade).

good analogy and looking at the responses, I'd say the ratio is the same 

[GreenspointTexas 9556]

2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Greenspoint is the epitome of the "toxic, entitled" fanbase stereotype that the national media has built up about Texas in recent years (much longer than that, really, but especially this decade).

If entitled is not wanting to see us embarrassed by Radford and Providence ever year, then I dont wanna know what you are

 

jfc

[Skipper 6088]

2 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

My bad, 20 million dollars is way too much for us. Yall are right, lollll

 

Lets let our program wallow in shittiness like A&M. Thats the ticket

We make fun of Aggy paying Jimbo $75MM salary guaranteed over 10 years.  And you want to pay $20MM IN FUCKING BUYOUTS to fire Shaka and Hire Beard......  Post less.

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, idigTexas said:

That is a sweet deal, but again, I don't want a coach who sees it that way.  Wanting to go somewhere because you will be celebrated for doing less isn't a quality that we should value. 

that was the red flag.  assuming its true, there was some commentary when we hired him that he didn't think he was the right fit for UCLA(read - expectations too high).  I'd submit he is the perfect fit for UCLA if he thinks he can coach.   Is that who you want?  you think Rick Barnes or even Tom Penders wouldn't have taken the UCLA job if offered? I realize they aren't the UCLA of old but shit even Steve Alford made 3 sweet sixteens in 6 years.  we'd kill for that now even with a couple of non appearances.

They are inconsistent over the last 30 years but damn if they havent won one, made mulitple final fours, many sweet sixteens.

[idigTexas 2258]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Well, then, I don't agree with that. We paid enough to keep Rick Barnes when NC State, Indiana, and especially Kentucky came sniffing around, we renovated the Erwin Center while he was here, and we built the Cooley Pavilion, which is as good a practice facility as a college player is going to get.

The Erwin Center sucked, but it's only 40 42 years old this year. It's unusual for college basketball programs to build new arenas at all, but certainly more frequently than that, so if that is your standard for measuring whether we're spending on basketball, I don't think it's a fair one.

All valid points, especially considering my poorly worded argument.  My comment about money being spent was directed the Erwin Center, which has been a horrible venue for basketball, even after the renovations.  For that reason, I don't feel that our facilities have been a strong selling point for coaches considering the job.  

[GreenspointTexas 9556]

Just now, Skipper said:

We make fun of Aggy paying Jimbo $75MM salary guaranteed over 10 years.  And you want to pay $20MM IN FUCKING BUYOUTS to fire Shaka and Hire Beard......  Post less.

Agree to disagree. Shaka is shit. Hes a horrible coach. We know this. Next season will be no better. Enjoy the very likely possibity of sitting at home this postseason and next. Enjoy being the laughingstock of the big 12. Enjoy the shitshow that will be next season. 

 

Im sure not going to enjoy it. It seem like you will. Eat the buyout and make a move. Or post for another 13 months about sucking dick at basketball and who we should hire

[HtownHorn 14446]

8 minutes ago, Skipper said:

We make fun of Aggy paying Jimbo $75MM salary guaranteed over 10 years.  And you want to pay $20MM IN FUCKING BUYOUTS to fire Shaka and Hire Beard......  Post less.

No we make fun of aggy paying that much for a shitty coach that ran his current program into the ground and was likely going to get fired because the administration and fan base was tired of his shit.

Beard is nothing like Jimbo, even so, there are other coaches you can get that don't require a giant buy out and/or a $3M per contract.

Edited March 6, 2019 by HtownHorn

[Machinator 32097]

12 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

If entitled is not wanting to see us embarrassed by Radford and Providence ever year, then I dont wanna know what you are

 

jfc

Entitled is thinking that we can just dump a coach by asking our boosters to pay more than they paid for a football head coaching change, when basketball is third in importance among the three revenue sports to the majority of our fanbase - while also asking them to fund a new baseball facility, the SEZ expansion, a new softball facility, a new outdoor swimming pool for our GOAT swimming coach who has asked for one for nearly thirty years, Mike Meyers renovations - and on top of that we have $190M in debt service.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Machinator

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

No we make fun of aggy paying that much for a shitty coach that ran his current program into the ground and was likely going to get fired because the administration and fan base was tired of his shit.

Beard is nothing like Jimbo.

It's still not financially sound.

What are you going to do about it when CDC doesn't make a move?

[HtownHorn 14446]

5 minutes ago, Machinator said:

It's still not financially sound.

What are you going to do about it when CDC doesn't make a move?

Hope Shaka sees the writing on the wall and takes another job, or laugh when the team struggles once again to make the tournament next year, Texas fires him, and the costs are the same at this point next year. Shaka is getting his money no matter what unless he leaves. Getting Beard next year is going to cost the same as getting Beard this year.

Edited March 6, 2019 by HtownHorn

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

Hope Shaka sees the writing on the wall and takes another job, or laugh when the team struggles once again to make the tournament next year, fires him, and the costs are the same at this point next year.

The costs won't be the same because we'll be paying his replacement coach for one fewer year of Shaka's buyout. But otherwise, sure.

[HtownHorn 14446]

2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

The costs won't be the same because we'll be paying his replacement coach for one fewer year of Shaka's buyout. But otherwise, sure.

But Shaka already earned stole that salary. You aren't paying any less.

Edited March 6, 2019 by HtownHorn

[ztejas 43244]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

But Shaka already earned that salary. You aren't paying any less.

You aren't paying Shaka any less - but you also aren't paying 2 coaches at once. 

This isn't a difficult concept to understand. 

[Machinator 32097]

6 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

But Shaka already earned stole that salary. You aren't paying any less.

You are paying the new coach in 2019-20 if you fire Shaka now.

You aren't doing that if you fire Shaka next year.

Either way, we're paying Shaka until 2023.

I don't know if I can be any clearer.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Machinator

[HtownHorn 14446]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You aren't paying Shaka any less - but you also aren't paying 2 coaches at once. 

This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

Which you will be doing next year anyway. If the buyouts are the same in 2019 and 2020, the real difference is the money you be spending in the new coaches 1st year. So is it worth $3M to Texas to fire Shaka now as opposed to next year. At this point the answer should be a resounding yes.

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 hours ago, idigTexas said:

That is a sweet deal, but again, I don't want a coach who sees it that way.  Wanting to go somewhere because you will be celebrated for doing less isn't a quality that we should value. 

that's not "the reason" a coach would come here, it's an advantage of coming here. job security is a perk, not a problem. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Yeah, you can, and it's actually really easy to do so. Marquette has more tournament wins, more national titles, and more elite eights and final fours in the more modern tournament era. 

Since 2000? Maybe a wash. Going forward? Texas should be the better program, and definitely is the more attractive job. 

But history wise, I don't think Texas really has much on Marquette. 

Uh, no. Not even close. Maybe a wash since 2000? According to whom? Kevin Durant has single handedly made Texas one of the bigger names in college basketball, and we are a MUCH bigger name than Marquette, evidenced by the fact that they lost their coach to Va Tech of all places, the fact that they don't recruit on a level anywhere near where we do, they don't have a roster of NBA alumni that can even begin to touch ours, they aren't anywhere near a name brand like Texas is; i mean seriously, it's not close- Texas is a much bigger basketball program than Marquette.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Goo Punch

[HtownHorn 14446]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

You are paying the new coach in 2019-20 if you fire Shaka now.

You aren't doing that if you fire Shaka next year.

Either way, we're paying Shaka until 2023.

I don't know if I can be any clearer.

But you would be paying the new coach and Shaka through 2023 no matter when Shaka is fired. So you are saving $3M and letting the program rot another season. For me, $3M isn't overwhelming enough of a sunk cost to allow Shaka to further run the program into the ground.

[ztejas 43244]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Which you will be doing next year anyway. If the buyouts are the same in 2019 and 2020, the real difference is the money you be spending in the new coaches 1st year. So is it worth $3M to Texas to fire Shaka now as opposed to next year. At this point the answer should be a resounding yes.

Okay but this:

Getting Beard next year is going to cost the same as getting Beard this year.

Isn't true. 

So yes, the difference is around $3MM. 

[Machinator 32097]

2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Which you will be doing next year anyway. If the buyouts are the same in 2019 and 2020, the real difference is the money you be spending in the new coaches 1st year. So is it worth $3M to Texas to fire Shaka now as opposed to next year. At this point the answer should be a resounding yes.

It's been explained before that basketball revenue is relatively stable unless we completely crater (like 2016-17) or make a deep run (I'm talking conference championships and Final 4s). So the "yes" isn't nearly as resounding as you think it is.

Now, if we miss the tournament this year, maybe the calculus changes.

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

For me, $3M isn't overwhelming enough of a sunk cost to allow Shaka to further run the program into the ground.

And that's fair.

But unless you're a BMD and you haven't told us, it's clear that the powers that be don't see it in the same light.

[Js1 85056]

God I know we suck and everyone is sick of Shaka, but can we please be rational, intelligent people? Especially the Texas alums?

We are not spending $20 million to fire and hire a basketball coach.  We are not Duke, UNC, KU, Kentucky - basketball is #3 in popularity at Texas and in terms of accomplishments, is below Men's S&D.  

CDC is not a dumb person - he isn't going to sink $20 million into replacing Shaka if we make the tournament. 

[Dirk X West 772]

Is Shaka really "running UT basketball into the ground", or is he just a frustratingly mediocre coach whose teams play ugly basketball?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Just now, Js1 said:

God I know we suck and everyone is sick of Shaka, but can we please be rational, intelligent people? Especially the Texas alums?

We are not spending $20 million to fire and hire a basketball coach.  We are not Duke, UNC, KU, Kentucky - basketball is #3 in popularity at Texas and in terms of accomplishments, is below Men's S&D.  

CDC is not a dumb person - he isn't going to sink $20 million into replacing Shaka if we make the tournament. 

Agreed. There isn't a good ROI on it. It's not that we could NEVER do it (however unlikely), it's that in 2019 CDC is not going to do it to Smart for whomever we could get to replace him.

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Is Shaka really "running UT basketball into the ground", or is he just a frustratingly mediocre coach whose teams play ugly basketball?

The bold part. He has the #11 recruiting class in the '19 class and will still likely get Texas to the tournament 3/4 years. 

This obviously isn't good enough but it's far from the Strong level of incompetence. 

Not the type disaster that's going to justify spending $20 million in buyouts. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by texasstrong12

[ztejas 43244]

8 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Uh, no. Not even close. Maybe a wash since 2000? According to whom? Kevin Durant has single handedly made Texas one of the bigger names in college basketball, and we are a MUCH bigger name than Marquette, as if evidence by the fact that they lost their coach to Va Tech if all places, the fact that they don't recruit on a level anywhere near where we do, they don't have a roster of NBA alumni that can even begin to touch ours; i mean te seriously not close, Texas is a much bigger basketball program than Marquette.

Dwyane Wade was an MU product last I checked. 

And yes, since 2000, Texas has one more EE and one more SS appearance - they both made the FF in 2003 - but MU has a more recent EE and SS. Texas has 3 regular season B12 titles - Marquette has 2 regular season Big East titles and one CUSA. 

So I guess Texas edges them but it's close. 

The point is that despite Texas being a bigger brand and more attractive program, there are a good amount of much smaller schools that have had almost as much, the same, or more success as of late. 

I mean, just look at this season. Marquette is ranked, 2nd in the BE, and a strong tournament team again, under a different coach than their last SS, and Texas is sitting on the bubble. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ztejas

[Machinator 32097]

Just now, Dirk X West said:

Is Shaka really "running UT basketball into the ground", or is he just a frustratingly mediocre coach whose teams play ugly basketball?

Despite what our most strident fans will tell you, it's the latter.

If you replaced him next year with an above-average coach (and no major attrition), we would be a top 3 team in the Big 12 and could easily make a deep run in the tourney. That's not a program that's been run into the ground.

[HtownHorn 14446]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

CDC is not a dumb person - he isn't going to sink $20 million into replacing Shaka if we make the tournament. 

It's not $20M, it's the new coach's 1st year salary, given the buyouts are similar year to year. Whether you pay that out in a lump sum or over the remainder of his contract, he's still getting the money and I imagine he could work out a payment plan just like Strong got.

Edited March 6, 2019 by HtownHorn

[Skipper 6088]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

God I know we suck and everyone is sick of Shaka, but can we please be rational, intelligent people? Especially the Texas alums?

Seriously, it's amazing how bad some posters are here at math/finance.  HTownHorn would probably rack up credit card debt to afford payments on a new car because "he was eventually going to need a new car anyways".

[Goo Punch 4275]

7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dwyane Wade was an MU product last I checked. 

And yes, since 2000, Texas has one more EE and one more SS appearance - they both made the FF in 2003 - but MU has a more recent EE and SS. Texas has 3 regular season B12 titles - Marquette has 2 regular season Big East titles and one CUSA. 

So I guess Texas edges them but it's close. 

The point is that despite Texas being a bigger brand and more attractive program, there are a good amount of much smaller schools that have had almost as much, the same, or more success as of late. 

I mean, just look at this season. Marquette is ranked, 2nd in the BE, and a strong tournament team again, under a different coach than their last SS, and Texas is sitting on the bubble. 

you keep talking about the program's performance, and not which program is actually the bigger basketball program. until we start talking about the same subject then i don't see any point in going further. essentially zero coaches or recruits think that Marquette is bigger program/better gig than Texas. It's a fact that has nothing to do with comparing tournament resumes. I know a bunch of HS basketball players, and i can promise you that none of them have a clue where D Wade played his college ball when they were two years old. They all know where KD played.

Texas is a marquee school in a marquee conference with a roster of NBA alumni that rivals anyone save the top 3-4 blue bloods, and that includes the second best/most famous player in the world, who is extremely vocal about being a Texas alum. Again, these are unarguable facts. Texas is a much bigger program/coaching gig than Marquette. End of story. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Goo Punch

[ztejas 43244]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

It's not $20M, it's the new coach's 1st year salary, given the buyouts are similar year to year. Whether you pay that out in a lump sum or over the remainder of his contract, he's still getting the money.

Dude... there is a huge difference between $20MM all at once and $20MM spread out over the next 4-5 years. 

[Skipper 6088]

Just now, ztejas said:

Dude... there is a huge difference between $20MM all at once and $20MM spread out over the next 4-5 years. 

Not to mention that if Beard is the goal (and I don't think he is) his buyout is going to reduce year to year as well if not extended.

[ztejas 43244]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

you keep talking about the program's performance, and not which program is actually the bigger basketball program. until we start talking about the same subject then i don't see any point in going further. essentially zero coaches or recruits think that Marquette is bigger program/better gig than Texas. It's a fact that has nothing to do with comparing tournament resumes. I know a bunch of HS basketball players, and i can promise you that none of them have a clue where D Wades played his college ball when they were two years old. They all know where KD played. 

Are you more interested in Texas making money and being a big brand name or Texas actually winning basketball games?

You seem somewhat conflicted here. 

"Better" program to me means winning games. That was where the debate began. If you define "better" as having more money and being a bigger name that's your prerogative. 

Would you rather be aggy football or Stanford football?

[HtownHorn 14446]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dude... there is a huge difference between $20MM all at once and $20MM spread out over the next 4-5 years. 

and Strong's buyout was paid out over multiple years. I think next year is his final payment from Texas, or you could reassign Smart within in the athletic department, and pay him to sit at home. 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

 you could reassign Smart within in the athletic department, and pay him to sit at home. 

this is the buyout offset we have to hope for-- reassign in the hopes Wake Forest or someone even stupider comes along and pays him to leave 

[Machinator 32097]

Reassigning a coach to some administrative role in the hopes that he goes elsewhere is unprofessional and simply not going to happen. Chris Del Conte is not going to do that.

Not to mention it's a terrible look for attracting other rising coaches.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Machinator

[Goo Punch 4275]

9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Are you more interested in Texas making money and being a big brand name or Texas actually winning basketball games?

You seem somewhat conflicted here. 

"Better" program to me means winning games. That was where the debate began. If you define "better" as having more money and being a bigger name that's your prerogative. 

Would you rather be aggy football or Stanford football?

i'm not conflicted, you're confused. The Texas job is unarguably bigger and more prestigious than the Marquette job. Texas is a destination school for 4* 5* players from all over the country, continent, and even the world. Marquette is not. It's not an argument based on opinion, it's fact based. I frankly don't have a clue how you and @texasstrong12 don't understand the difference. 

Do you guys believe that every single school that's been better than Texas recently is a bigger job? A bigger destination for a top flight coach or a 5* recruit? Is Texas Tech a bigger job than Texas now? Do they beat out Texas for 4* and 5* talent? Are we talking about the Texas coach potentially leaving UT for a bigger gig at TTU or is it just the opposite? Your argument which states "the team that's currently better is the bigger program" is either dinsingenious or just plain ignorant, but either way you're wrong. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Burt Macklin 18988]

1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Last I checked, our ath. dept. isnt exactly strapped for cash. 20 million dollars is chump change at Texas

 

Our AD has a profit of $12 million in 2018, so yeah, $20 million is a lot and good luck getting boasters to shell out anywhere near that kind of money for B-ball, especially when they’ve already got hit up for the SEZ. 

There are really only two realistically possible options for moving on from Shaka this year:

1) Hoiberg. No buyout means it’s cheaper to get him this year (if we can) than wait another year for Shaka’s buyout to go down but have to pay a new coach a buyout next year.

2) CDC is a fucking wizard and convinces Wake or some other program to pay Shaka even a fraction of what we owe him, like $1 M per year through 2023 guaranteed. 

I guess #3 would be BMDs pony up the roughly $20 mil, but that’s definitely third in likelihood of happening here IMO. I also think that even if CDC could raise that, he wouldn’t want to die to the optics.

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Reassigning a coach to some administrative role in the hopes that he goes elsewhere is unprofessional and simply not going to happen. Chris Del Conte is not going to do that.

Not to mention it's a terrible look for attracting other rising coaches.

I disagree about it being unprofessional, and I disagree about whether or Del Conte WOULD do it (he is not doing it this spring), and I disagree it will scare off other rising coaches.

Other than that, love your post.

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

Do you guys believe that every single school that's been better than Texas recently is a bigger job? 

My point was more the fact that I think you were undervaluing Marquette. Is it an "alpha program"? Nope but it's still a good job. 

You can win at Marquette. 

Texas has more advantages but it's not like Buzz has been at terrible programs his entire career. 

 

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

My point was more the fact that I think you were undervaluing Marquette. Is it an "alpha program"? Nope but it's still a good job. 

You can win at Marquette. 

Texas has more advantages but it's not like Buzz has been at terrible programs his entire career. 

 

 

It's very simple: Texas is a bigger program than Marquette, and a much bigger destination for top flight talent- both players and coaches- than Marquette is. That's it. End of story. It's just a fact. The Texas Longhorns have a name brand hoops program thanks mostly to Kevin Durant. Marquette doesn't. It is what it is. Texas is the best job that's even potentially available in CBB right now. That's the point, not some tangential argument about Marquette winning tourney games. 

[PilotsError 2280]

16 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I disagree about it being unprofessional, and I disagree about whether or Del Conte WOULD do it (he is not doing it this spring), and I disagree it will scare off other rising coaches.

Other than that, love your post.

 

JFC.  I seriously think some of you live underground and have never been in the real world.  

Ever.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

great contribution as always

[TXSooner518 2432]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Yeah, you can, and it's actually really easy to do so. Marquette has more tournament wins, more national titles, and more elite eights and final fours in the more modern tournament era. 

Since 2000? Maybe a wash. Going forward? Texas should be the better program, and definitely is the more attractive job. 

But history wise, I don't think Texas really has much on Marquette. 

 

30 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Uh, no. Not even close. Maybe a wash since 2000? According to whom? Kevin Durant has single handedly made Texas one of the bigger names in college basketball, and we are a MUCH bigger name than Marquette, evidenced by the fact that they lost their coach to Va Tech of all places, the fact that they don't recruit on a level anywhere near where we do, they don't have a roster of NBA alumni that can even begin to touch ours, they aren't anywhere near a name brand like Texas is; i mean seriously, it's not close- Texas is a much bigger basketball program than Marquette.

LOL seriously this is absurd.  I'm 41. In my life, Marquette has one Final Four (Dwyane Wade has one Final Four anyway), two Elite Eights, and six Sweet Sixteens. They have four conference titles, one conference tourney title.  Texas has one Final Four, four Elite Eights, seven Sweet Sixteens, and nine conference titles and two conference tourney titles. The huge majority of college basketball fans couldn't tell you what state Marquette is located in. 

As far as Buzz' performance at Va Tech, Va Tech has had two NCAA tourney wins since Ronald Reagan was sworn in as president, for Christ's sake. This season, they will make their 3rd straight tourney. That's the first time that has happened in the history of Va Tech basketball. 

Interesting factoid found while I researched:  Marquette was outscored in the last two tourneys where they made at least the Elite Eight.  In the 2003 NCAA tournament, they won by 4, 9 (in OT), 3, and 14, before losing the national semi by 33.  In 2013, they won by 1, 2, and 10, before losing the Elite Eight game 55-39.

[Machinator 32097]

All this Texas vs. Marquette debate aside, Buzz Williams would be a great candidate.

I wouldn't be surprised if A&M made a run at him if they decide to eat Billy Kennedy's buyout.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Machinator

[pigmeat markham 135]

So much, and understandably so, of the UT discussion pertaining to acquiring Beard is focused on the financial side, I think some significant non-dollar related issues are by and large mostly overlooked.

He's lived in Lubbock 14 years now and genuinely likes it and considers it his home.  Additionally, his daughters, with whom he's very close, are relatively close as they live in Abilene.  His serious, long time girlfriend is coaching in Lubbock as a head coach.  

I see where he's supposedly already the 11th highest paid college in the country and should another elite 8 or better appearance be made this season, Hocutt could make that change for the better in a hurry.  Also, TT is currently in the midst of building Beard a literally state of the art basketball facility of basically his own design, creation and druthers. Additionally, he feels he has some true ringers slated to come into the program.

This is all not to say his departure is an impossibility of course, but merely should UT decide they wanted to pay the price, I don't think his decision would be solely based on financial considerations.

[Brian Fantana 6654]

This has to be the most retarded argument I've ever seen on this board.

[Dbeasy 14953]

Marquette draws 13,700 ave attendance and Texas 10,500 ave in 2017. There are some challenges that come with the Texas job.

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

20 minutes ago, Machinator said:

All this Texas vs. Marquette debate aside, Buzz Williams would be a great candidate.

I wouldn't be surprised if A&M made a run at him if they decide to eat Billy Kennedy's buyout.

He's #1 on their list as of now.