Fire Shaka Smart

[Js1 87,185]

15 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

This has to be the most retarded argument I've ever seen on this board.

Wait until we don't fire Shaka.

 

[ztejas 44,227]

29 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

LOL seriously this is absurd.  I'm 41. In my life, Marquette has one Final Four (Dwyane Wade has one Final Four anyway), two Elite Eights, and six Sweet Sixteens. They have four conference titles, one conference tourney title.  Texas has one Final Four, four Elite Eights, seven Sweet Sixteens, and nine conference titles and two conference tourney titles. The huge majority of college basketball fans couldn't tell you what state Marquette is located in. 

That seems like a really dumb cutoff to use considering if you were 45 they would have a national title and a runner up finish on top of everything you mentioned. 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

nah

Edited March 6, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[ztejas 44,227]

58 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

i'm not conflicted, you're confused. The Texas job is unarguably bigger and more prestigious than the Marquette job. Texas is a destination school for 4* 5* players from all over the country, continent, and even the world. Marquette is not. It's not an argument based on opinion, it's fact based. I frankly don't have a clue how you and @texasstrong12 don't understand the difference. 

Do you guys believe that every single school that's been better than Texas recently is a bigger job? A bigger destination for a top flight coach or a 5* recruit? Is Texas Tech a bigger job than Texas now? Do they beat out Texas for 4* and 5* talent? Are we talking about the Texas coach potentially leaving UT for a bigger gig at TTU or is it just the opposite? Your argument which states "the team that's currently better is the bigger program" is either dinsingenious or just plain ignorant, but either way you're wrong. 

And how have all of those 4 and 5 stars worked out for Texas hoops lately? 

And no one is saying Marquette is a bigger job. What the fuck kind of straw-man are you on about at this point? The point is that it's a lesser job but a job where it hasn't been much harder to win. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ztejas

[TXSooner518 2,455]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

That seems like a really dumb cutoff to use considering if you were 45 they would have a national title and a runner up finish on top of everything you mentioned. 

OK cool. My point was I"m a middle-aged man, and their peak success is before my birth. Do you think any current recruits or coaching candidates care an iota that Marquette won the 1977 national title?  

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Texas has been consistently recruiting top flight players and classes for more than 15 years now, while Marquette is lucky to get a top 20 class once in a blue moon. They're more likely to sign the 80th best class or the 100th best class than they are to sign even back to back top 25 classes, but yeah, they're totally bigger than Texas.

we also signed a coach who was (unfortunately) the hottest name in up and coming coaches, a coach who famously turned down UCLA. You think Shaka would have gone to Marquette after turning down UCLA? Or how about Rick turning down Kentucky to stay at Texas. You think any coach at Marquette ever turns down UK to stay where he is? This is an absurd argument with only one correct side. Nobody besides two people in this thread actually thinks that Marquette hoops is a bigger name than Texas.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Nike is really rolling in the dough with all of that Marquette merch they sell. Can't sell those Marquette jerseys fast enough. This sarcasm is of course assuming they're even sponsored by Nike. I doubt 1 in 5 CBB fans can confidently name who sponsors Marquette.

edit: turns out it's Jordan Brand. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Goo Punch

[ztejas 44,227]

7 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

but yeah, they're totally bigger than Texas.

No one is saying that. Stop with this bullshit.

They dont have to be bigger to be a comparable program when it comes to actually winning games.

Again, currently ranked 16th in the country, tied in the Big East loss column with Nova, with a coach that isnt Tom Crean or Buzz Williams.

Hence the title of the thread: fire the coach that is wasting 4 and 5 stars at one of the better destinations in college basketball.

Oh yeah, it is Jordan brand. One of 8 schools in the country repped by them. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ztejas

[Brian Fantana 6,866]

8 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Texas has been consistently recruiting top flight players and classes for more than 15 years now, while Marquette is lucky to get a top 20 class once in a blue moon. They're more likely to sign the 80th best class or the 100th best class than they are to sign even back to back top 25 classes, but yeah, they're totally bigger than Texas.

we also signed a coach who was unfortunately the hottest name i'm yo and coming coaches, a coach who famously turned down UCLA. You think Shaka would have gone to Marquette after turning down UCLA? Or how about Rick turning down Kentucky to stay at Texas. You think any coach at Marquette ever turns down UK to stay where he is? This is an absurd argument with only one correct side. Nobody besides two people here actually thinks that Marquette hoops is a bigger name than Texas.

 

4 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Nike is really rolling in the dough with all of that Marquette merch they sell. Can't sell those Marquette jerseys fast enough. This sarcasm is of course assuming they're even sponsored by Nike. I doubt 1 in 5 CBB fans can confidently name who sponsors Marquette.

edit: turns out it's Jordan Brand. 

This right here, this is the worst type of fan. You don't want to be this fan. Take heart, chaps.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

This right here, this is the worst type of fan. You don't want to be this fan. Take heart, chaps.

i don't even have a clue as to what point you're trying to make. the kind of fan who knows where his hoops program stands in the CBB hierarchy?

Edited March 6, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4,275]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

No one is saying that. 

It's literally the entire argument you retard, no matter how many times you fail to understand it. we're talking about which gig is a bigger job and which school is more attractive to recruits, not going over which one has won more tourney games recently. 

the tone deafness for *you* to say "stop with this bullshit" is mind boggling.

[Brian Fantana 6,866]

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

since when does pointing out that Texas hoops is a bigger name than Marquette hoops equal calling Texas the king?

[Katfid54 9,005]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Despite what our most strident fans will tell you, it's the latter.

If you replaced him next year with an above-average coach (and no major attrition), we would be a top 3 team in the Big 12 and could easily make a deep run in the tourney. That's not a program that's been run into the ground. 

This is true.  But, damn, if the second paragraph doesn't really support the argument that we should bite the bullet and make the change.

There's some amount of "don't wait until tomorrow to do something you know you need to do today."  As well as the fact that, if we could find someone to come in, we have the talent stockpiled to be a good basketball team.

Really, the question to me is more of an issue of whether we can actually locate an above-average coach who will come here than rather we would pay Shaka's buyout.  That riskiness makes the buyout a lot harder to swallow, because you don't want to guess wrong.  But if you're CDC and you know you're going to get it right, it's a no-brainer move.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

poll the average college fan on Texas vs Marquette.

What colors do they wear?

What is their mascot?

What conference are they in?

What state are they in?

What city are they in?

Name five NBA players from the school.

Name the head coach

Name the previous head coach

 

you are absolutely high if you think that the average fan even knows close to as much about Marquette hoops as they do Texas hoops, because again, Texas is a marquee school in a marquee conference with several marquee NBA players including the uber famous and uber proud Longhorn Kevin Durant. 

 

Damn, and we had gone so long without a completely ridiculous and clearly one sided argument. 

[jinx 2,636]

4 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

It is a sunk cost no matter what. Shaka is a failure. He's going to get his money no matter what, but why wait another year and allow him to kill the program anymore?

My thoughts exactly.  I think the true cost is the further deterioration of the basketball fan base.  I stopped caring about this season early on, and won't pay attention at all if Smart comes back next year.  An (even more) empty stadium for 2020 doesn't help your next coaching search at all.

[jinx 2,636]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Dude... there is a huge difference between $20MM all at once and $20MM spread out over the next 4-5 years. 

That is how most buy outs are paid.  They aren't lump sum

[LebongJames 1,921]

Nothing will change until FEC is demolished 

[LTtxfan 50,005]

Let's think creatively.....

Shaka's remaining contract $12.9mill  4yrs

1. CDC arranges UT will pay Shaka $10mill lump sum to buy out.

2. CDC agrees to no offset if Shaka coaches elsewhere.

3. Shaka signs a $10+mill 4yr deal with Wake Forrest (Good for Wake Forrest since don't have to pay a buyout to Texas to get Shaka)

4. CDC hires Fred Hoiberg as Horns Basketball Coach

 

Pour me another Tequila Sheila.....

Edited March 6, 2019 by LTtxfan

[texasstrong12 4,668]

11 minutes ago, jinx said:

 An (even more) empty stadium for 2020 doesn't help your next coaching search at all.

Attendance has been shit for years. Keeping Shaka one extra year would have little to no impact. 

[Tired Horn 836]

1 hour ago, Dirk X West said:

Is Shaka really "running UT basketball into the ground", or is he just a frustratingly mediocre coach whose teams play ugly basketball?

He's both. Shaka is a frustratingly mediocre coach whose teams play ugly basketball and who will eventually run UT basketball into the ground if given enough time.

 

[Katfid54 9,005]

16 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

poll the average college fan on Texas vs Marquette.

What colors do they wear?

What is their mascot?

What conference are they in?

What state are they in?

What city are they in?

Name five NBA players from the school.

Name the head coach

Name the previous head coach

 

you are absolutely high if you think that the average fan even knows close to as much about Marquette hoops as they do Texas hoops, because again, Texas is a marquee school in a marquee conference with several marquee NBA players including the uber famous and uber proud Longhorn Kevin Durant. 

 

Damn, and we had gone so long without a completely ridiculous and clearly one sided argument. 

Okay, I tried to respond, just for fun:

What colors do they wear? Blue and yellow.

What is their mascot?  Either a devil or an eagle.

What conference are they in? Big East?  Or some shitty conference no one has heard of.

What state are they in?  Wisconsin.

What city are they in?  Milwaukee.

Name five NBA players from the school.  Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade.

Name the head coach  Who the fuck knows.

Name the previous head coach  I guess I assume it was Buzz, but maybe there was someone in between?

[Goo Punch 4,275]

lol that's pretty good 

[Katfid54 9,005]

Just now, Goo Punch said:

lol that's pretty good 

I was really proud of myself for being able to name 5 NBA players who went there.

[markstanco 12,788]

and he got punked by a german.  

[Underdog 29,190]

48 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

poll the average college fan on Texas vs Marquette.

What colors do they wear?

What is their mascot?

What conference are they in?

What state are they in?

What city are they in?

Name five NBA players from the school.

Name the head coach

Name the previous head coach. 

[Machinator 32,103]

15 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Stay out of this, nerd.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,467]

4 hours ago, Machinator said:

Greenspoint is the epitome of the "toxic, entitled" fanbase stereotype that the national media has built up about Texas in recent years (much longer than that, really, but especially this decade).

In every game thread, no matter the sport, 5 minutes into the game he's telling us how the game is over and we're total shit.  The biggest chicken little among all chicken littles.  

[ClubWhatever 12,309]

3 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

In every game thread, no matter the sport, 5 minutes into the game he's telling us how the game is over and we're total shit.  The biggest chicken little among all chicken littles.  

Ballgame.  Radford.  He’s done at Texas.  

[VinyVango 708]

Shaka has the look, demeanor and overall vibe of a lame duck / kicked dog of late, which is never good for a program.  It unfairly adds a shitload of pressure on the players when they start thinking their play will affect the livelihood of their coach. 

Whoever is coaching next year has some very good, young pieces in place and won't be "starting over" or "rebuilding" (unless there are a ton of defections), as evidenced by the team play without Roach and DO on the court of late.  That said, it's not clear if Shaka returning with his current underclassmen and recruits intact is better than some new guy like Buzz coming in and having a lot of recruits and players bolt.  Beard has shown that a good coach can get guys the big schools passed on to play winning high-level ball.

If Shaka survives the season, I wonder if he maintains what's obviously not working well or tries to shake up his tone, strategic beliefs, and teaching methodology to save his job.

I think my dream hire would be Mark Few or Brad Stevens.  Billy Donovan would also be good, as he ran an exciting brand of ball with really good results at another football school, Florida.  I don't see either of them leaving the NBA anytime soon.  Jay Wright would be good.  I think Kelvin Sampson is a good coach, but he is a scumbag reputation wise.  A lot of the former up and comers like the Millers, Mack, Cronin are kind of struggling.  I'm not sold on the Nevada coach yet.  There's a pretty big gap between the top 5-8 current college coaches and the rest of the pack.

I think we need a win against TCU and a win in the first round of the conference tournament (which is unlikely if Roach shows up suddenly and fucks up the recent chemistry guys have been trying to develop) to make the NCAA.

Maybe we get another shot at Va Tech, Providence or Radford in the NIT... ugh.

Rant over.

[Js1 87,185]

We don't need 2 more wins.  2 more wins would only help our seeding.  But we are "solidly" in per Lunardi.  Ideally, you don't want to go in with a 3 game losing streak, so let's not do that. 

[Machinator 32,103]

8 minutes ago, VinyVango said:

Maybe we get another shot at Va Tech, Providence or Radford in the NIT... ugh.

 

Just putting it out there... Radford and Virginia Tech are both on track to be tournament teams.

[VinyVango 708]

2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Just putting it out there... Radford and Virginia Tech are both on track to be tournament teams.

actually I meant VCU, but they may be heading for the tournament as well.

 

[LTtxfan 50,005]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We don't need 2 more wins.  2 more wins would only help our seeding.  But we are "solidly" in per Lunardi.  Ideally, you don't want to go in with a 3 game losing streak, so let's not do that. 

Win vs TCU on Saturday, and Horns are definitely in. 

A loss to Kansas (#3 seed) in B12 Tourney probably won't hurt Texas (#6 seed) at all.

[Machinator 32,103]

12 minutes ago, VinyVango said:

actually I meant VCU, but they may be heading for the tournament as well.

 

Right.

Despite people going on and on about Radford, the two worst losses were probably @Georgia (the game wasn't even that competitive in the second half) and at home to Providence,

[Js1 87,185]

Georgia, Providence and that first game against OSU were the bad losses.

Holy fuck that Georgia game is still maddening.  Have they won a game since they pantsed us? 

[Machinator 32,103]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Georgia, Providence and that first game against OSU were the bad losses.

Holy fuck that Georgia game is still maddening.  Have they won a game since they pantsed us? 

Just one game: at Florida, which is actually a respectable win for the Dawgs.

[VinyVango 708]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Georgia, Providence and that first game against OSU were the bad losses.

Holy fuck that Georgia game is still maddening.  Have they won a game since they pantsed us? 

Georgia, OSU, blowing the big lead to Baylor followed, home loses to VCU and Providence, and round 1 to TCU were all punches in the gut ... we shouldn't have lost the second game to the Sooners either.  Most of our "quality losses" would have been wins with decent end game coaching and poise.

[Dbeasy 15,596]

Okay, I tried to respond, just for fun:
What colors do they wear? Blue and yellow.
What is their mascot?  Either a devil or an eagle.
What conference are they in? Big East?  Or some shitty conference no one has heard of.
What state are they in?  Wisconsin.
What city are they in?  Milwaukee.
Name five NBA players from the school.  Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade, Dwayne Wade.
Name the head coach  Who the fuck knows.
Name the previous head coach  I guess I assume it was Buzz, but maybe there was someone in between?

Dude. Butch Lee. Butch effen Lee.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,467]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

We don't need 2 more wins.  2 more wins would only help our seeding.  But we are "solidly" in per Lunardi.  Ideally, you don't want to go in with a 3 game losing streak, so let's not do that. 

Regardles of what everyone says, I firmly believe we need 2 more wins to get over the aesthetic hurdle of our record.   17-15 is an ugly ass record to be an at large team in the tournament.  The committee would have to be amazingly committed to the "metrics" to pass over several 20 to 23 win teams and put us in the tourney.  Appearances matter. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Catdaddyhorn

[HtownHorn 15,236]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

We don't need 2 more wins.  2 more wins would only help our seeding.  But we are "solidly" in per Lunardi.  Ideally, you don't want to go in with a 3 game losing streak, so let's not do that. 

Texas is not solidly in. They lose against TCU and the 1st round of the Big 12 tournament, they are not in the tournament. Solidly would suggest that Texas could lose their next 2 and not sweat Selection Sunday.

[Machinator 32,103]

I know @Goo Punch has been a Steve Prohm advocate, but watching a team implode like this down the stretch is not a great look. Feels much like a late-era Barnes team.

[Blotto 24,021]

Honestly, if Prohm is the best we can do this year, I'd rather keep Shaka for another year and hope the market is better next year. He's probably a better coach than Shaka, but that shouldn't be the gold standard.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Blotto

[Goo Punch 4,275]

2 hours ago, Machinator said:

I know @Goo Punch has been a Steve Prohm advocate, but watching a team implode like this down the stretch is not a great look. Feels much like a late-era Barnes team.

yeah the shine has definitely worn off down the stretch. still a believer in him based on what he's done so far, but i'm no longer looking at him like he might be a rising coaching star just yet. 

[ChickenSandwich 9,959]

I see a bunch of reasons to keep him unfortunately. The new stadium is years away, huge buyout, average success this season, NBA draft rule changes, and the G League offering a paid alternative.  Saving the buyout and letting the cards fall where they may doesn’t seem like a terrible strategy  

Big times approaching fast for college basketball. 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

14 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Regardles of what everyone says, I firmly believe we need 2 more wins to get over the aesthetic hurdle of our record.   17-15 is an ugly ass record to be an at large team in the tournament.  The committee would have to be amazingly committed to the "metrics" to pass over several 20 to 23 win teams and put us in the tourney.  Appearances matter. 

People keep saying this but the committee is gonna have to take teams near .500 to get to 68 teams. 

Florida is 17-13. Likely going to be 17-14 after a loss @ Kentucky. They're in the field.

Alabama is 17-13. Good chance they are 17-14 after a loss @ Arkansas. They're in the field. 

Clemson is 18-12. Good chance they are 18-13 after a loss against Syracuse. They're in the field. 

Seton Hall is 17-12. Good chance they are 17-13 after a loss against Nova. They're in the field. 

Ohio State is 18-11. Good chance they are 18-12 after a loss against Wisconsin. They're in the field. 

Minnesota is 19-11. Good chance they are 19-12 after a loss against @ Maryland. They're in the field. 

I could keep going. Texas isn't some random outlier here. Almost all the P5 teams near the bubble have shit records with 12 to 15 losses and Texas has better metrics than almost all of them. 

You can't find enough teams with "20 to 23 wins' to get to 68 tournament teams. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by texasstrong12

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Also, in reference to overall record it shouldn't be the end all be all. The perfect example this year is NC State. 

They have a 20-10 record. They are 2-8 against Q1 teams. They played the #352 non-conference strength of schedule (out of 353 teams). 

A team like NC State shouldn't get a bid over other teams simply because they stacked a few more wins against shit non-conference teams like Mount Saint Mary's, Maryland East Shore, Main, Saint Peters, Mercer, Western Carolina, USC Upstate, Loyola University Maryland. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by texasstrong12

[Catdaddyhorn 3,467]

35 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Also, in reference to overall record it shouldn't be the end all be all. The perfect example this year is NC State. 

They have a 20-10 record. They are 2-8 against Q1 teams. They played the #352 non-conference strength of schedule (out of 353 teams). 

A team like NC State shouldn't get a bid over other teams simply because they stacked a few more wins against shit non-conference teams like Mount Saint Mary's, Maryland East Shore, Main, Saint Peters, Mercer, Western Carolina, USC Upstate, Loyola University Maryland. 

I'd feel better about our chances if we stacked a few more wins against shit teams.  

[texasstrong12 4,668]

6 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I'd feel better about our chances if we stacked a few more wins against shit teams.  

We've lost some bad games but we've played the #7 SOS per NET. When a team like NC State has played the #212 SOS. 

We would likely have over 20 wins with NC State's non-conference schedule. It's why resumes shouldn't be solely based on overall record. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by texasstrong12

[immortal13 4,059]

We would still suck either way