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Justin Amash: Independent

jimmyjazz

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

Posted
Posted
On 7/7/2019 at 8:52 AM, Anastasis said:

Amash runs for president as an L. Donald refuses the presidential debates. So then invite Kamala/Warren and Amash. That would be great.  

My how times have changed.  Still think an Amash Biden debate would be a good thing. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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9 hours ago, F250 said:

Amash should try running for Governor or Senator. Running as a LP Presidential candidate will get you nowhere fast. Even Ron Paul understood he needed to run an insurgency campaign in the Republican Primary.

I would say fuck the LP and just run as an independent, but ballot access.  Cause democracy and shit. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Amash being on the ticket in 2020 would get more white suburban vote away from Biden than Johnson did away from Hillary.

Amash 2020 takes Michigan off the table and probably Wisconsin and even Minnesota as well. Makes you worry more about Pennsylvania and Virginia as well. All of those conservative white suburban voters that the Democrats are playing so hard for now have a nice, principled #Resist character with independent credibility and none of the progressive stuff the suburbs find distasteful.

At best, Biden 2020 is having to play defense in places that were supposed to be the obvious ones to pick up.

So of course Amash will run, because the gods demand this stupid horseshit. It's our fate.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So of course Amash will run, because the gods demand this stupid horseshit. It's our fate.

Would be kind of nice to have one non-senile geriatric candidate in the mix though. But that is probably not our fate. 

Edited by Anastasis
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Would be kind of nice to have one non-senile geriatric candidate in the mix though. But that is probably not our fate. 

I guess it depends on what you mean by "in the mix."

Because being on the ballot isn't the same as being in the mix. He won't be in debates. He won't attract a nationwide movement that will shift 2-party politics. He won't be interesting in any way at all. He's a pouting Republican, which is very appealing to the hundreds of thousands of pouting Republican voters out there, of course, but we're not talking about a real player in the game.

We need to break the 2-party system we need ranked-choice voting and down-ballot organization. This top-down method will never work and is only ever a grift.

 

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

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19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Amash being on the ticket in 2020 would get more white suburban vote away from Biden than Johnson did away from Hillary.

...

Dude.  No one actually voted for Gary Johnson.  Surly CR cognoscenti have spoken.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Amash can suck a dick.

All his positions are still completely abhorrent - everyone forgets this because he’s the only former Republican with the balls to be vocally anti-Trump.

And now he’ll have the weirdo libertarian fanboys caping for him.

He’s still disgusting.

He’s just grifting off a different flavor of idiot.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1952

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Amash would help Biden. He would take more votes away from Trump. At the same time, Amash being on the ballot would help the GOP in senate and House races along with other down-ballot races by providing a reason for level-headed conservatives to go to the polls. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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33 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

All his positions are still completely abhorrent

Of course there are going to be philosophical disagreements about things like role of the federal government and more targeted issues like abortion, but to say that all of his positions are completely abhorrent is hyperbolic nonsense. You may not agree with his votes, but he has a good track record of being quite transparent and articulating his rationale for most votes.

 

Death Penalty - Cosponsored bill with Pressley to abolish federal death penalty.

Gerrymandering - Opposes partisan redistricting. Broke ranks with fellow Michigan GOP members, siding with Democrats in legal challenge.

Drug Policy - End federal MJ prohibition

Surveillance - Perhaps the strongest advocate for repeal of PATRIOT ACT and FISA surveillance.

Immigration - Fuck wall funding, national declaration or emergency, and executive orders.

Military - Supports significant funding cuts, opposes arms sales to SA, Israel etc. 

Foreign policy - Two state solution, fuck SA, fuck spending tax payer dollars to militarize the ME, congressional authorization of military force required.

 

  

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Well, as a woman, abortion and my right to do with my body as I see fit isn’t a “targeted issue”. Whatever the fuck that word salad nonsense term means.

And, yes, I said abhorrent and I meant abhorrent.

-Only no vote from the Michigan delegation to give federal assistance to Flint to help with their water crisis

-voted no to guarantee federal workers packpay after a government shutdown

-voted no to re-up an anti-Semitism monitor

-voted no on enhancing the U.S. response to emerging or potential genocides

-multiple no votes on all kinds of environmental protections

-his no votes on gay rights

-no votes on sanctions against Russia, North Korea, and Iran

His position on abortion - which is totally antithetical to his supposed libertarian principles - is enough for me to find him unacceptable.

Surprisingly, some of us have different priorities.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Well, as a woman, abortion and my right to do with my body as I see fit isn’t a “targeted issue”. Whatever the fuck that word salad nonsense term means.

What I intended was that it was a focused issue, as opposed to a more global philosophical disagreement such as the general role of the federal government. It was not intended to dismiss the importance with which you hold a position on that particular topic.

On all of those other specific votes you meantion, I am curious if you have read any of his rationale for those specific votes. I think that you will find the rationale for most of those votes to be a reflection of his broader position wrt to the appropriate role of the federal government. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20708

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44 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What if his goal is to make sure the Democrats don't win and enact massive rafts of policies he hates, so he's fine with a Trump win if it means that traditional conservatives still have visible power and organic, grassroots energy for 2028?

Amash has made it clear he dislikes and rejects Trump. Being the reason Dotard gets another 4 years is not what he wants to be known for. 

 

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gmr548

gmr548 16517

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Democrats.  I won’t repeat the whole conversation, but basically if Amash can show the LP has power by peeling off enough Trump voters who are really closeted libertarians, then the LP’s profile will rise, and it will draw more interest.   
I personally think the actual libertarians probably didn’t vote for Trump, and probably didn’t vote at all, but who am I to argue with the bumper stickers on a Subaru.  Nonetheless, they are excited, and think more Rs are ready to embrace the LP.
Pretty sure this couple strolls through UT on a regular basis with “I’m a libertarian, ask me anything” shirts.

If they want to flip Texas to Democrats, they should vote for Joe Biden. Ignoring that reality while thinking the Libertarian Party can actually influence an election in TX tells us your friend isn't very good with numbers.
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

What if his goal is to make sure the Democrats don't win and enact massive rafts of policies he hates, so he's fine with a Trump win if it means that traditional conservatives still have visible power and organic, grassroots energy for 2028?

Bong hits or tinfoil hatting this afternoon?

What if his goal is to represent his political values in a currently broken political environment where the only real choices are Joe Biden and Donald Trump?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Posted
Just now, Anastasis said:

Bong hits or tinfoil hatting this afternoon?

What if his goal is to represent his political values in a currently broken political environment where the only real choices are Joe Biden and Donald Trump?

I don't think these conflict. There are values-based reasons to do things and strategic reasons to do things.

I think if you put a gun to Amash's head and he has to vote for Trump or Biden, he's voting for Trump.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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34 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I don’t give a shit about his rationale if the result is something I disagree with.

He doesn’t mind not sticking to his libertarian principles on abortion so I could give a fuck about him being pure everywhere else.

I think that the underlying rationale is important. I can disagree with somebody's end conclusion, and still respect the thought process and basis for the conclusion.

And his pro-life views are not incompatible with his broader libertarian position. They actually flow quite logically if you believe that human life has value and begins at conception. You don't have to agree, but it is not some willy nilly arbitrary position that he has arrived at. 

The proper function of government is to protect individual rights--life, liberty, and property. I believe that life begins at conception, and it is unconscionable that government would sanction the taking of the helpless and innocent. - Amash 2010 

At the very minimum, relative to most on the right, he is at least consistent when the topic is the death penalty.

 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20708

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3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Sure.

How does he feel about the Democrats?

I don't think it really matters. He's won't want to risk being the trivia answer for why Trump got 4 more years. 

I find it extremely unlikely he enters the race. I'd guess he's really looking for an opportunity to reshape the GOP with his libertarian views if Trump and Trumpism loses the general election. 

 

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kevwun

kevwun 15653

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You know why Libertarians are a joke of a party?  Their "principles" makes them do really shitty things, like voting against Flint, Michigan and Hurricane Harvey relief bills.

Edited by kevwun
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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So no interest in seeing Amash on the dais for a presidential debate?   Even if you have no interest in hearing an alternative political perspective, he would trigger the fuck out of Trump and draw fire off Uncle Joe. 

Edited by Anastasis
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

SlipperyFlatBluetonguelizard-small.gif

What reason can you provide that would indicate otherwise?

Amash would pull half the white guy posters on this forum (not the Politics specifically, but overall) who might otherwise gag and vote for Biden. Repeat that in suburbs across the country.

Look at how much Johnson got in 2016. Amash would do even better.

 

nB0RIVs.jpg

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

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59 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I don’t give a shit about his rationale if the result is something I disagree with.

He doesn’t mind not sticking to his libertarian principles on abortion so I could give a fuck about him being pure everywhere else.

You have to be all or nothing. Oh, unless you believe it's a life then it still doesn't make sense.

Why is he protect something he believes is a human!?

 

 

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Nivek

Nivek 16861

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Posted
Bong hits or tinfoil hatting this afternoon?
What if his goal is to represent his political values in a currently broken political environment where the only real choices are Joe Biden and Donald Trump?

The political environment is only broken because of one party not acting in good faith.
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TexArcher

TexArcher 37519

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I think if you put a gun to Amash's head and he has to vote for Trump or Biden, he's voting for Trump.

No gun needed.  

The fact that Amash is even discussing running means he'd rather see Trump win than Biden.  If he'd rather see Biden win, he could endorse him, or at least sit the fuck down and be quiet.

Edit:  But this is all moot, because he's not going to run.  He's going to talk about running then "decide" that what's best for the country is for him to sit this one out.  And he'll be very loud about his decision.  Then he'll run in 2024 and say, "remember when I put the country above my own personal ambitions in 2020?"  He's running the Pete Buttigieg playbook, but without the guts to actually endorse Biden like Pete did.

Edited by TexArcher
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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21 minutes ago, Nivek said:

The political environment is only broken because of one party not acting in good faith.

I think that it has been broken for a few decades, but will agree that the GOP has absolutely debased themselves and significantly nuked the situation.

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Nivek

Nivek 16861

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4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that it has been broken for a few decades, but will agree that the GOP has absolutely debased themselves and significantly nuked the situation.

I tend to believe that they have been the architects of the break by their bad faith behavior for decades.  Every single principle they claim to have held they have lied about.  D's are flawed and their purity standard is ridiculous, but they are the only party carrying the torch for the country to remain functional and on a path for continual improvement. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I see nothing in his timeline that indicates support of Joe Biden. Can you enlighten me?

Interesting, since that exact same logic is why many posters here think that you are going to vote for trump. Is this a little projection?

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

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26 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I tend to believe that they have been the architects of the break by their bad faith behavior for decades.  Every single principle they claim to have held they have lied about.  D's are flawed and their purity standard is ridiculous, but they are the only party carrying the torch for the country to remain functional and on a path for continual improvement. 

I don’t disagree with this. It’s also why our country desperately needs a viable third Or fourth party. That’s not going to LP. I don’t know who it is going to be. I just know that the two party dynamic is a threat to our country. 

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19151

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11 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

All of those conservative white suburban voters that the Democrats are playing so hard for now have a nice, principled #Resist character with independent credibility and none of the progressive stuff the suburbs find distasteful.

I thought your big problem with Biden was he was 0% progressive? 

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19151

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7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that the underlying rationale is important. I can disagree with somebody's end conclusion, and still respect the thought process and basis for the conclusion.

And his pro-life views are not incompatible with his broader libertarian position. They actually flow quite logically if you believe that human life has value and begins at conception. You don't have to agree, but it is not some willy nilly arbitrary position that he has arrived at. 

The proper function of government is to protect individual rights--life, liberty, and property. I believe that life begins at conception, and it is unconscionable that government would sanction the taking of the helpless and innocent. - Amash 2010 

At the very minimum, relative to most on the right, he is at least consistent when the topic is the death penalty.

 

Since 1963 there have been THREE federal executions.  Good to see he's focusing on the important shit.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19151

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7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

So no interest in seeing Amash on the dais for a presidential debate?   Even if you have no interest in hearing an alternative political perspective, he would trigger the fuck out of Trump and draw fire off Uncle Joe. 

No interest at all.  Elizabeth Warren would have triggered the dotard way more than this slapdick.

Why should Justin get a first and second round bye in the Debate Tournament of Suck?

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

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3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

So you've got absolutely nothing at all to indicate that Amash would prefer a Biden presidency to a Trump presidency? Great. :)

Amash wanted to impeach Trump.  He burned bridges within the GOP because of it.  Now you think he wants to see Trump re-elected.  Bernie broke your brain.

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