Jump to content

Fireworks and HOAs

Wiler77

By Wiler77
in Daily Texan

 Share

Recommended Posts

Wiler77

Wiler77 1586

Posted
Posted

Searched and couldn't find a similar topic.

Curious for some input from the attorneys on the board...

Every New Year's and 4th of July I get an email from our HOA reminding us that fireworks are outlawed in the CC&Rs and that they can fine people who are found in violation.  Forget about the fact that they aren't going to send people around to actually attempt to enforce this rule, nor could they be sure which home is in violation if people are in the street, my question is if they did come around to catch people and could identify which home those people lived in, are they legally allowed to try to enforce it?  Here are some facts about where I live:

1. It is not a gated community, and the HOA does not own any of the roads in the neighborhood.

2. Fireworks are not banned where I live

3. There is no burn ban in effect

Seems to me if people shoot them off in their driveways, then maybe it becomes enforceable.  But lighting them in the street, where there are no restrictions by the county, means the emails are just empty threats.  They couldn't enforce the fireworks clause even if they wanted to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Armybrat

Armybrat 41001

Posted
Posted

About 20 years ago we were standing out front with a neighbor (whom we didn’t know very well) from several houses down watching other neighbors shoot off a shit ton of fireworks in the street. The HOA had sent out a news letter a week before reminding us about the Neighborhood fireworks ban.

Mrs. Brat casually commented, “I wonder who the asshole is who sent out that stupid letter”. (Direct quote) Of course the neighbor said “ I did”, making me spew a little bit of my beer. We didn’t know he was on the HOA board. We did become friends later after he was no longer on the board.

That still gives us (me & Mrs. Brat) a laugh every New Years & 4th of July.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 22030

Posted
Posted

They could for sure fine you, put a lien on your house when you don’t pay the fine, and cause you to incur a ton of legal fees to find out if the ban is legally enforceable. Wouldn’t it be easier to just go somewhere else to shoot off your fireworks.

 

Maybe there are people living there for whom the ban was a selling point. Why do people become such assholes about fireworks?

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33559

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wiler77 said:

Searched and couldn't find a similar topic.

Curious for some input from the attorneys on the board...

Every New Year's and 4th of July I get an email from our HOA reminding us that fireworks are outlawed in the CC&Rs and that they can fine people who are found in violation.  Forget about the fact that they aren't going to send people around to actually attempt to enforce this rule, nor could they be sure which home is in violation if people are in the street, my question is if they did come around to catch people and could identify which home those people lived in, are they legally allowed to try to enforce it?  Here are some facts about where I live:

1. It is not a gated community, and the HOA does not own any of the roads in the neighborhood.

2. Fireworks are not banned where I live

3. There is no burn ban in effect

Seems to me if people shoot them off in their driveways, then maybe it becomes enforceable.  But lighting them in the street, where there are no restrictions by the county, means the emails are just empty threats.  They couldn't enforce the fireworks clause even if they wanted to.

Yes they can. You signed an enforceable contract and that clause does not violate or contradict any existing laws.

You could fight it in court but you'd probably lose.

At least that's what our HOA attorneys have told me. I'm on an HOA board specifically so people on it won't be dicks. Fireworks are also against our CCRs but we don't enforce it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8853

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

About 20 years ago we were standing out front with a neighbor (whom we didn’t know very well) from several houses down watching other neighbors shoot off a shit ton of fireworks in the street. The HOA had sent out a news letter a week before reminding us about the Neighborhood fireworks ban.

Mrs. Brat casually commented, “I wonder who the asshole is who sent out that stupid letter”. (Direct quote) Of course the neighbor said “ I did”, making me spew a little bit of my beer. We didn’t know he was on the HOA board. We did become friends later after he was no longer on the board.

That still gives us (me & Mrs. Brat) a laugh every New Years & 4th of July.

Need to put this in the stupid things wives do and say thread also.... damned good one AB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15233

Posted
Posted
Yes they can. You signed an enforceable contract and that clause does not violate or contradict any existing laws.
You could fight it in court but you'd probably lose.
At least that's what our HOA attorneys have told me. I'm on an HOA board specifically so people on it won't be dicks. Fireworks are also against our CCRs but we don't enforce it.


And now huckleberry will get sued as soon as a house burns down, for not enforcing it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
UT_OB1

UT_OB1 2227

Posted
Posted

Police took sparklers out of my 7 and 4 year olds' hands last night.  We had poppers and sparklers.  Neighbors had a few of those small cones that shoot sparks 3-5 feet high.  We're in a cul-de-sac.  Police didn't stop the people shooting off artillery shells in their back yards on the other side of the circle that our subdivision makes (less than 1/2 mile away).   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Wiler77 said:

  But lighting them in the street, where there are no restrictions by the county, means the emails are just empty threats.  They couldn't enforce the fireworks clause even if they wanted to.

I guess the real question is, if someone that doesn't live in the neighborhood comes into the neighborhood and parks the car in front of your house (which they can, being a public street and all) and starts shooting off fireworks, what, if any punishment would they get?  It would seem dumb that a resident could get fined while a compete stranger gets off Scott free. 

In that case just hire a hobo to light them off in the street for you while you just watch.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10463

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I guess the real question is, if someone that doesn't live in the neighborhood comes into the neighborhood and parks the car in front of your house (which they can, being a public street and all) and starts shooting off fireworks, what, if any punishment would they get?  It would seem dumb that a resident could get fined while a compete stranger gets off Scott free. 

In that case just hire a hobo to light them off in the street for you while you just watch.  

How does that seem dumb? The random person didn’t enter into a contractual relationship and agree to abide by certain rules. 

You could walk into my office and tell the managing partner to go fuck herself with a rusty pipe. The result would be different for me to do that

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11825

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

Police took sparklers out of my 7 and 4 year olds' hands last night.  We had poppers and sparklers.  Neighbors had a few of those small cones that shoot sparks 3-5 feet high.  We're in a cul-de-sac.  Police didn't stop the people shooting off artillery shells in their back yards on the other side of the circle that our subdivision makes (less than 1/2 mile away).   

What?  Sparklers aren’t illegal.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15233

Posted
Posted
I guess the real question is, if someone that doesn't live in the neighborhood comes into the neighborhood and parks the car in front of your house (which they can, being a public street and all) and starts shooting off fireworks, what, if any punishment would they get?  It would seem dumb that a resident could get fined while a compete stranger gets off Scott free. 
In that case just hire a hobo to light them off in the street for you while you just watch.  

And he can pitch a tent afterwards!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brew

Brew 3049

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Shooting off shitty Chinese made fireworks is such a white trash activity.

You sound like a bundle of fun. 

It’s not my thing, but my kids like watching them and playing with the small stuff. Our neighborhood puts on a big display every year which keeps them occupied. When I was a kid, my dad dumped tons of money into fireworks and made sure he had some every time he could shoot them. However, he only drank sweet tea, Budweiser, and Jack Daniels so your white trash analogy may still be applicable.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hornbri

hornbri 1467

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

Police took sparklers out of my 7 and 4 year olds' hands last night.  We had poppers and sparklers.  Neighbors had a few of those small cones that shoot sparks 3-5 feet high.  We're in a cul-de-sac.  Police didn't stop the people shooting off artillery shells in their back yards on the other side of the circle that our subdivision makes (less than 1/2 mile away).   

That's some fucking bullshit. My kids had a dozen sparklers each last night and no fucks were given, oh and an off duty APD officer (friend) was here. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stinkpalm

Stinkpalm 689

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Maybe the best part of that video is the woman dragging her beaten down husband  back to the car while this is all going on. His posture is that of a man who has completely given up on trying to act like he has any say in that relationship. One of the craziest things you’ll get to see in person, and the wife says “grab my purse, we’re leaving.” You went there to watch things explode, no?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Underdog

Underdog 28873

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brew said:

You sound like a bundle of fun. 

It’s not my thing, but my kids like watching them and playing with the small stuff. Our neighborhood puts on a big display every year which keeps them occupied. When I was a kid, my dad dumped tons of money into fireworks and made sure he had some every time he could shoot them. However, he only drank sweet tea, Budweiser, and Jack Daniels so your white trash analogy may still be applicable.

Son? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wiler77

Wiler77 1586

Posted
  • Author
Posted
11 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes they can. You signed an enforceable contract and that clause does not violate or contradict any existing laws.

You could fight it in court but you'd probably lose.

At least that's what our HOA attorneys have told me. I'm on an HOA board specifically so people on it won't be dicks. Fireworks are also against our CCRs but we don't enforce it.

The contract I signed says what I will and will not do on my property.  Seems like it's none of their business what I do on a public road that is out of their jurisdiction.  Assuming I abide by the laws of the folks that govern that road, I should be good.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
That Guy

That Guy 974

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, hornbri said:

That's some fucking bullshit. My kids had a dozen sparklers each last night and no fucks were given, oh and an off duty APD officer (friend) was here. 

Some fireworks are legal in Austin. Might just be snakes and sparklers. Can’t remember what else. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 22030

Posted
Posted
The contract I signed says what I will and will not do on my property.  Seems like it's none of their business what I do on a public road that is out of their jurisdiction.  Assuming I abide by the laws of the folks that govern that road, I should be good.
 

A lot of HOAs have restrictions about overnight parking in the street. I believe that these have been held to be enforceable even though there is no city ordinance prohibiting it. HOAs cannot be in conflict with existing ordinances (for example allow something that is prohibited by ordinance). But they can be more restrictive. I am not an attorney, nor did I stay in a holiday inn express last night.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WBT

WBT 20745

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wiler77 said:

The contract I signed says what I will and will not do on my property.  Seems like it's none of their business what I do on a public road that is out of their jurisdiction.  Assuming I abide by the laws of the folks that govern that road, I should be good.

 

You seem hung up on this.  In what way could it be legal to block a public street to set off fireworks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33559

Posted
Posted
The contract I signed says what I will and will not do on my property.  Seems like it's none of their business what I do on a public road that is out of their jurisdiction.  Assuming I abide by the laws of the folks that govern that road, I should be good.
 
I suppose it depends on your specific CCR document but the vast majority do not specifically state that they pertain only to activities on your property. Most of them state that they pertain to activities within the community.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mole

Mole 4336

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

You could walk into my office and tell the managing partner to go fuck herself with a rusty pipe. The result would be different for me to do that

I’m willing to do this for you for a reasonable fee. I’ll even throw in the fireworks for no additional charge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28837

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Maybe there are people living there for whom the ban was a selling point. Why do people become such assholes about fireworks?

If you have a problem with people setting off fireworks on or about the 4th of July then you're the one who's being an asshole about fireworks. 

6 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Can we at least have a gentleman’s agreement that fireworks in neighborhoods are tolerated on the 4th, but you are an asshole if you are back at it on the 5th?

No. It's a season and it lasts through the weekend. Some cities have their big show before the 4th so as not to compete with July 4th celebrations in the suburbs. Some municipalities are having their fireworks shows tonight. As long as you're not shooting them off past 11:00 pm, no one should complain. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wiler77

Wiler77 1586

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 hours ago, WBT said:

You seem hung up on this.  In what way could it be legal to block a public street to set off fireworks?

1. You missed the part where I said as long as I'm abiding by the laws of the folks that govern the road, I should be fine.

2. I don't block the road.  If there are headlights, fireworks cease until they pass

3. What does blocking the road have to do with the legality of an HOA trying to enforce a rule outside their jurisdiction?  If I'm blocking the road, I would expect that to be a police matter, much like if someone is speeding through the neighborhood.

10 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:


A lot of HOAs have restrictions about overnight parking in the street. I believe that these have been held to be enforceable even though there is no city ordinance prohibiting it. HOAs cannot be in conflict with existing ordinances (for example allow something that is prohibited by ordinance). But they can be more restrictive. I am not an attorney, nor did I stay in a holiday inn express last night.

True, and if those rules have been shown to be enforceable, that may provide the real answer to my original question.  That's a similar situation where the HOA magically has authority over something they don't own just because they said so.  Doesn't make sense to me, unless there was some other law being broken.  Also seems like a lot of work to enforce that.  I assume someone has to run the plates to find the owner of the car in order to make it official.  Unlikely to be enforced if a car is sitting out for 1 night.

 

9 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I suppose it depends on your specific CCR document but the vast majority do not specifically state that they pertain only to activities on your property. Most of them state that they pertain to activities within the community.

Right, which really forms the basis for my OP.  Why is really legal (or more to the point does it hold up in court) for them to arbitrarily say you aren't allowed to do something in a place where they have no ownership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wiler77

Wiler77 1586

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The whole reason I'm asking is because I got a chuckle out of their bi-annual email stating that fireworks are against the CC&Rs.  The email looked like an party invitation.  Fireworks in the background.  "Happy 4th of July!  Don't set off fireworks."

The topic is a powder keg on Nextdoor every December and July, and it got me wondering why they've never tried to enforce that rule.  You could drive one time through the neighborhood and hand out a dozen fines.  Got me wondering if the reason they don't do this is because they can't actually enforce the rule even if they wanted to.

Thanks for indulging me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
elfenix

elfenix 34387

Posted
Posted
Right, which really forms the basis for my OP.  Why is really legal (or more to the point does it hold up in court) for them to arbitrarily say you aren't allowed to do something in a place where they have no ownership.

the HOA has a lien on your property. You agreed to abide by its rules or they can enforce against it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10463

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Wiler77 said:

 

Right, which really forms the basis for my OP.  Why is really legal (or more to the point does it hold up in court) for them to arbitrarily say you aren't allowed to do something in a place where they have no ownership.

I don’t know why this is so hard for you to grasp. It’s not arbitrary. You and every other homeowner in your neighborhood agreed to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...