Fireworks and HOAs

[formermav43 4606]

The lesson, as always with these sorts of threads: if you don’t like other people telling you what you can do with your property, don’t live in a neighborhood with an HOA. They’re well within their rights to regulate this, and you’ve already agreed to be bound by that.

[atomheartbevo 90058]

21 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

The lesson, as always with these sorts of threads: if you don’t like other people telling you what you can do with your property, don’t live in a neighborhood with an HOA. They’re well within their rights to regulate this, and you’ve already agreed to be bound by that.

This.  Spent my high school years and some time off and on for about 10 years after this in a big subdivision in Sugar Land, and won’t do the HOA thing again.  Had an in-law work at a management company for a very large subdivision, and the stories I heard,,..I will get to that in a minute.

[atomheartbevo 90058]

3 hours ago, Wiler77 said:

The topic is a powder keg on Nextdoor every December and July, and it got me wondering why they've never tried to enforce that rule.

Because they don’t want a shitload of angry people showing up to vote in a new HOA board.  You’d be surprised at how few people get involved in HOA politics - as long as the HOAs don’t push things too far, they can be mild assholes.

[atomheartbevo 90058]

16 hours ago, Wiler77 said:

And btw, things like safety, being a good neighbor, etc, etc, are all reasonable debates, but it bothers me that the HOA sends out there notices to try to control things that are out of their control.

In-law worked for a management company that managed several subdivisions (before the Internet was popular, so everything was physically mailed). The company handled the bulk of the complaints, the mailers, etc.and they would send employees around weekly checking the grass, making sure mailboxes weren’t leaning, nobody painted the wrong color, nothing that wasn’t permitted in the front or backyards, etc. (easier with drones now, and some places do use drones).  

They deliberately sent out notices about things outside of their control, because they rightly assumed that 99% of homeowners didn’t have a fucking clue what their actual rights were, and what the limits were on the HOA.   Most likely some HOA board member had a pet peeve about fireworks and made the company send it out.

They had HOA board members constantly trying to fuck with other people they were angry with, and the management company had to abide quite a bit, or risk losing their contract.

They even had an HOA board member trying to make things difficult on somebody whose house they wanted to buy, and the homeowner wouldn’t sell - the company basically had somebody checking the laundry list of rules against that homeowner pretty much every day or two, constantly mailing about he length of the lawn, etc. (by the time the mailer would be received, the homeowner would have already mowed).  Apparently that HOA board member was a local city employee, and his general fuckery with people got him fired in a very public manner, but he still harassed the shit out of that poor homeowner up until he was exposed and booted off the board.  And other board members were okay with it until that point.  It took a member of the management company to tell the homeowner that the asshole was trying to make them leave and sell their house.

Now put aside the asshole board members for a moment - the management company had their own agenda - to try and nickel-and-dime the HOA and the homeowners as much as possible - ridiculous fees, making sure contracts for things like pool management or maintenance went to their subsidiaries (which wasn’t always disclosed).  They were allowed to do so by the board members unless they felt the homeowners would get pissed off as a group and start coming to meetings.

And that’s the rub - although the internet does make it much easier to avoid shitty HOAs these days, unless you have somebody like Huckleberry on the board, they can make your life miserable. And in my experience, and my in-law’s experience, not many people show up at the meetings.

[SquishMitten 10463]

As a recovering board member, I can tell you that people only show up to meetings when the board isn’t doing their job. I was elected because the previous board had completely shirked their responsibilities. Every contract they had was with a subsidiary of the management company. We came in and the first step was to change management companies. Another guy who joined the board with me did the bulk of this work, but we managed to get all new contracts with other companies, and we saved over a $100k/annually just from that. Plus the new companies give a hell of a lot better service. Flipped that money into tons of improvements around the neighborhood. When I joined, we’d get 50-100 people at every meeting. By the time I left, we were averaging 2-3. A good board who pays attention to their management company makes all the difference in the world. If you don’t like your HOA, many folks in your neighborhood feel the same way. Stop bitching, organize and replace the board. It’s not hard.

[tbone_ 14280]

People would rather just believe HOAs are inherently evil because it’s hard to learn something new and much easier to just bitch and moan.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22030]

HOAs are a necessary evil.  They are necessary because most Americans are assholes who completely ignore the effect that their actions have on other people.  Most Americans have to have strict rules, that are enforced, in order for them to act like humans that are capable of living in a cooperative society with other humans. 

[wood 11585]

On 7/5/2019 at 9:04 AM, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Why do people become such assholes about fireworks?

.... and why the fuck can't they clean up after themselves when they're done?

[Wiler77 1586]

4 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

I don’t know why this is so hard for you to grasp. It’s not arbitrary. You and every other homeowner in your neighborhood agreed to it.

I know what I signed.  But there are also plenty of things in life that don't hold legal water just because someone declared them so.  That's what I'm trying to figure out.  Before any surgery the patient signs a piece of paper that says they won't hold the doctor or hospital responsible for anything that goes wrong.  But you can't disclaim you're own negligence, and malpractice lawsuits happen every day in this country.  Non-compete agreements are a big gray area as well.  What about illegal parking and towing signs?  I hate to give Txtow any credit, but he did open people's eyes to the legality of different towing signs.

I haven't seen anything definitive that says an HOA can enforce any rule that happens on a publicly owned street in the neighborhood just because they said so.

[Wiler77 1586]

Honestly I don't have a problem with our HOA.  If anything I think they are too lenient, but if I had my choice, that's the side I would want them to error on.

I really just started this thread to see if there was any expertise on the board on this topic.  "No Fireworks" is not enforced in my neighborhood, and I have never seen the emails deter anyone from lighting them, and it won't stop me from doing them in the future.  It was really just a curiosity question.

I am responsible about how I do fireworks, and I'm teaching my kids the same.  Safety, cleanup, respect for the time of day, etc are all things I'm teaching my kids.  And you set them off on July 4th and Dec. 31st only.  No Jan. 4th on a Wednesday night

[Wiler77 1586]

4 hours ago, formermav43 said:

The lesson, as always with these sorts of threads: if you don’t like other people telling you what you can do with your property, don’t live in a neighborhood with an HOA. They’re well within their rights to regulate this, and you’ve already agreed to be bound by that.

You've missed the entire premise of my question.

[bschoolprof 6280]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

HOAs are a necessary evil.  They are necessary because most Americans  humans are assholes who completely ignore the effect that their actions have on other people.  Most Americans humans have to have strict rules, that are enforced, in order for them to act like humans that are capable of living in a cooperative society with other humans. 

FIFY.  Thomas Hobbes was right in a lot of ways.  

[tbone_ 14280]

Also because cities don’t want to pay for infrastructure and common area maintenance in big subdivisions but they want to make sure the voters get what they paid for. That’s why they came about.

 

The structure isn’t the problem. People are the problem. As always.

[ABSR 5327]

On 7/6/2019 at 6:46 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

The shitty ones, sure. You gotta get the good ones. 

Those are made in Southern China!

[WhatTheBuck 28838]

On July 6, 2019 at 6:04 PM, wood said:

.... and why the fuck can't they clean up after themselves when they're done?

I can't say I've ever seen fireworks waste left behind. Maybe it's there in concert parking lots the next day. I wouldn't know. But since most of the amateur fireworks I see are set off on private property, people have to clean up after themselves.

I always clean up after myself. It's been several years since I put on a show but I always kept a box of these on hand:

[wood 11585]

15 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I can't say I've ever seen fireworks waste left behind. Maybe it's there in concert parking lots the next day. I wouldn't know. But since most of the amateur fireworks I see are set off on private property, people have to clean up after themselves.

I always clean up after myself. It's been several years since I put on a show but I always kept a box of these on hand:

People buy a shit ton of 'em and set 'em off in our cul de sac every 4th & NYE, but they never lift a finger to clean any of it up until we start doing it ourselves. Then they always say "You don't need to do that! We were about to get it". O rly? When? I'll die waiting for you useless mfers to get around to it.

We've been out of town with another family from the cul de sac the last two 4ths. We had to get the cleanup started last year with a little shaming. We got back yesterday evening and the shit's still all out there everywhere. All over the cul de sac. In my yard & others, etc. I guess they're waiting for us to get the cleanup going again as usual. It's unreal. I guess they'd just live in fireworks remnants and assorted other filth if nobody else ever started cleaning the shit up.

Edited July 7, 2019 by wood

[WhatTheBuck 28838]

7 minutes ago, wood said:

People buy a shit ton of 'em and set 'em off in our cul de sac every 4th & NYE, but they never lift a finger to clean any of it up until we start doing it ourselves. Then they always say "You don't need to do that! We were about to get it". O rly? When? I'll die waiting for you useless mfers to get around to it.

We've been out of town with another family from the cul de sac the last two 4ths. We had to get the cleanup started last year with a little shaming. We got back yesterday evening and the shit's still all out there everywhere. All over the cul de sac. In my yard & others, etc. I guess they're waiting for us to get the cleanup going again as usual. It's unreal. I guess they'd just live in fireworks remnants and assorted other filth if nobody else ever started cleaning the shit up.

Wow, that's really lame. 

[EE2B 1565]

You mother fuckers should live in a hood where @marcstanco is HOA president. You would then see what fucked up is.

[elfenix 34387]

On 7/6/2019 at 5:12 PM, Wiler77 said:

I haven't seen anything definitive that says an HOA can enforce any rule that happens on a publicly owned street in the neighborhood just because they said so.

again, it's because you agreed to their rules.  the streets are part of the subdivision, and the subdivision and HOA were both created by the same (juridical) person.  so, even though the streets have now been deeded to the city, the HOA can govern your behavior (and that of your family and your invitees, by applying pressure to you) within the bounds of the subdivision because you agreed to their rules. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by elfenix

[NeverMarryAStripper 22030]

People who agree to abide by rules and then fail to do so are the exact people that force us to create entities like HOAs. So quit bitching about the rules you agreed to and realize you’re the reason we have to have them.

[El Diablo 4232]

I do believe there are people here whose idea of a fireworks show is a gigantic snake. One so large that it gets out of control and burns down the entire country. With ashes falling from the sky like snow until everyone looks like they're wearing blackface. 

[Armybrat 41005]

I miss the cherry bomb & M80 fights we used to have. Talk about needing quick feet. Great fun in spite of getting stung.

But the loss of hearing wasn’t evident at the time.

[jkates 316]

On 7/6/2019 at 12:09 PM, elfenix said:

the HOA has a lien on your property. You agreed to abide by its rules or they can enforce against it.

 

As a former HOA Treasurer, I saw several of these liens. Folks would ignore fines, then go to sell their houses and OOPS! HOA always got paid. 

[relapse98 634]

3 hours ago, jkates said:

As a former HOA Treasurer, I saw several of these liens. Folks would ignore fines, then go to sell their houses and OOPS! HOA always got paid. 

Unless they are the perfect kind of person who let's it get to a lien, then they ignore it and also ignore paying their mortgage.

HOA lien is subordinate, mortgage lender forecloses, house worth less than mortgage, HOA lien goes into thin air. That sucks. HOA has probably spent a good deal of money at that point, money that the other members have paid, and it fizzles into thin air.

 

[Huckleberry 33570]

10 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

Unless they are the perfect kind of person who let's it get to a lien, then they ignore it and also ignore paying their mortgage.

HOA lien is subordinate, mortgage lender forecloses, house worth less than mortgage, HOA lien goes into thin air. That sucks. HOA has probably spent a good deal of money at that point, money that the other members have paid, and it fizzles into thin air.

 

It happens.

We've had multiple cases in my short time on the board of people who had apparently purchased, moved in, then never paid the HOA a dime for several years. Then these people went to sell their home in the last year or two and were gobsmacked that the HOA's money due would come out of their sale.

[relapse98 634]

People are... slow.

Sort of related, our city outlaws fireworks. Couple of years ago I had to educate the guy across the road that he lived in the city. He had no clue. I mean, I guess if you never vote in municipal elections, or get a library card, or use any of the benefits our city gives residents, or ever look at your tax bill.

And then there's the clown that setoff some sort of roman candle type thing while we were all on the muncipal golf course to watch the city sponsored fireworks. Up come 2 guys on bicycle, I told the wife here come the park rangers. Oh no, it was 2 police officers. Who wrote the first ticket I've ever seen them give out for violating the fireworks ordinance. The police explained how they are illegal in the city. And the clown tries to argue that can't be right because the guy at the fireworks stand sold them to you. Well he did.. just not in the city limits. And of course he's not going to tell you where you can't take them, he just wants your cash.

[crash_davis 23159]

fireworks and hoa's, as american as apple pie.  we didn't invent one but made it awesome.  we invented the other and made it the opposite of awesome.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22030]

5 hours ago, relapse98 said:

Oh no, it was 2 police officers. Who wrote the first ticket I've ever seen them give out for violating the fireworks ordinance. 

When the City of Houston first banned fireworks and before the State passed a law allowing the transportation of fireworks, HPD would follow people from the fireworks stands into the city limits and then pull them over, confiscate the fireworks, and give them a ticket.  You would have to buy your fireworks and head away from the city until HPD lost interest and turned around.

Edited July 8, 2019 by NeverMarryAStripper

[Deej 77185]

.

[jkates 316]

19 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

It happens.

We've had multiple cases in my short time on the board of people who had apparently purchased, moved in, then never paid the HOA a dime for several years. Then these people went to sell their home in the last year or two and were gobsmacked that the HOA's money due would come out of their sale.

Same. I received several phone calls from shocked/outraged homeowners.