Insurance/Roofing Related Question

[Skipper 6136]

Getting my roof replaced after the big Dallas storm.  Learned my roof had a "designer" 50 year shingle on it that cost around 8K more than a standard 30 year (I wasn't aware when I bought it).  I've talked to several roofers that have the opinion that it's a 'nice to have' but wouldn't be worth the out of pocket cost to upgrade.   I mean just the fact that this "50 year" roof that is 6 years old didn't withstand the storm more than any others seems to be evidence of that.

In any event, I have major uninsured interior damage so considering just replacing with a standard shingle and pocketing the difference.  Would those in the know think insurance have an issue with this generally?  If yes, what if I just don't receive the recoverable depreciation for the roof?  Would still come out ahead.

[Gene Parmesan 4008]

Wouldn't the insurance company want proof that you replaced with the higher quality shingle they paid you for?  Is that not how it works?  Never replaced a roof, and I am naïve, but I have to think there's a catch to pocketing 8k from an insurance company. 

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

25 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Wouldn't the insurance company want proof that you replaced with the higher quality shingle they paid you for?  Is that not how it works?  Never replaced a roof, and I am naïve, but I have to think there's a catch to pocketing 8k from an insurance company. 

 

Yeah, it's called insurance fraud. 

[Skipper 6136]

Why I'm asking the question as i'm sure there are some here who work in the industry.  None of the roofers seem to think it's an issue.  I understand the Insurance company is required to pay you the actual cash value of the damaged property.  That is their contractual obligation. As I understand it, I don't have to get all of the repairs done (for example, I may not repaint my pergola) but I could not receive the recoverable depreciation for any repairs not completed.  If I elect to use a cheaper shingle it seems analagous at a minimum that I could just not obtain the recoverable depreciation for that component.

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

29 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Why I'm asking the question as i'm sure there are some here who work in the industry.  None of the roofers seem to think it's an issue.  I understand the Insurance company is required to pay you the actual cash value of the damaged property.  That is their contractual obligation. As I understand it, I don't have to get all of the repairs done (for example, I may not repaint my pergola) but I could not receive the recoverable depreciation for any repairs not completed.  If I elect to use a cheaper shingle it seems analagous at a minimum that I could just not obtain the recoverable depreciation for that component.

You would probably have to update your policy as well for the cheaper shingle's, would probably raise your rate a little.  They came and looked at mine when I got a new house recently. Don't know the answer to your main question though I do know roofers have zero regard for insurance companies. 

[Skipper 6136]

18 minutes ago, Lobwedgephil said:

You would probably have to update your policy as well for the cheaper shingle's, would probably raise your rate a little.  They came and looked at mine when I got a new house recently. Don't know the answer to your main question though I do know roofers have zero regard for insurance companies. 

Right.  Although I actually don't think I was getting credit on my policy for the more expensive shingles to begin with.    But for an analogy, how would this be any different than if your car was totaled getting the replacement value of the car then buying something used/cheaper?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Generally with roofs the insurance company will make payment after the claim is verified and an estimate is made in the amount of the estimate less depreciation less deductible. If you chose not to replace the roof you can keep the payment, but if you have another incident with that roof you are out of luck. If you replace the roof they will make payment for the depreciation. I would assume it would work somewhat the same way if you replace with the lesser shingle in that you will lose at least some of your depreciation. I would just ask your adjuster.

[Skipper 6136]

7 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Generally with roofs the insurance company will make payment after the claim is verified and an estimate is made in the amount of the estimate less depreciation less deductible. If you chose not to replace the roof you can keep the payment, but if you have another incident with that roof you are out of luck. If you replace the roof they will make payment for the depreciation. I would assume it would work somewhat the same way if you replace with the lesser shingle in that you will lose at least some of your depreciation. I would just ask your adjuster.

Thanks.  Yes, in process of setting up a call with adjuster.   Not trying to hide the ball but this adjuster has been difficult generally throughout this process so trying to get a sense if anyone had experience or knowledge with the issue.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Yeah I’m in the process of getting a new roof from the hail storm here.

[deadshank 24653]

Why are the roofers talking about out of pocket costs to upgrade your roof?  You already have an upgraded roof and your IC should pay you for the upgraded roof.  Per your description, it seems to me the roofers you’re talking to are trying to capture the “upgraded” roofing scope of loss money and then give you a normal “non-upgraded” roof, pocket the spread, then charge you more for an upgraded roof.  

What kind of shingle is on your roof?   Can the roofers ID it?   If not, find a real roofer that can.  Be advised, 90% of storm chaser roofing companies do not give a single F@CK about your roof or installing it in a proper manner.  They care only about maximizing your claim, taking advantage of your ignorance and delivering as little roof as possible.   

I am a roofing contractor that does very little  storm claim work.  It’s the slimiest segment of the industry.  Be very cautious.  

There are some good stormers but they are few and far between.  It’s best to hire a real roofing contractor that doesn’t rely solely on storm work to survive.  

@ROFLBOX knows the roof storm claims BS backward and forward.  Perhaps he will chime in.  

In the mean time sign nothing and stone face them.   Let the initial panic and hysteria pass.  

[Skipper 6136]

17 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Why are the roofers talking about out of pocket costs to upgrade your roof?  You already have an upgraded roof and your IC should pay you for the upgraded roof.  Per your description, it seems to me the roofers you’re talking to are trying to capture the “upgraded” roofing scope of loss money and then give you a normal “non-upgraded” roof, pocket the spread, then charge you more for an upgraded roof.  

What kind of shingle is on your roof?   Can the roofers ID it?   If not, find a real roofer that can.  Be advised, 90% of storm chaser roofing companies do not give a single F@CK about your roof or installing it in a proper manner.  They care only about maximizing your claim, taking advantage of your ignorance and delivering as little roof as possible.   

I am a roofing contractor that does very little  storm claim work.  It’s the slimiest segment of the industry.  Be very cautious.  

There are some good stormers but they are few and far between.  It’s best to hire a real roofing contractor that doesn’t rely solely on storm work to survive.  

@ROFLBOX knows the roof storm claims BS backward and forward.  Perhaps he will chime in.  

In the mean time sign nothing and stone face them.   Let the initial panic and hysteria pass.  

 I wasn't clear.  I agree I can replace the already upgraded roof.   But I'm not sure there is real value in that.   Shingle has been ID'd.  It's essentially $9K more in the cost of the shingles.    But I'm out of pocket north of $50K in uninsured interior damage.  So if I can apply those funds to my interior costs that would be ideal.   This isn't roofers trying to talk me out of it.

I view it as exactly what I did with my car which I owned outright.   I had water damage which totaled it.   Insurance paid me cash replacement value .  I'm taking that cash and applying it towards my interior repairs while leasing a new vehicle instead of using the cash to purchase a similar replacement.   This would be a similar approach with the roof.  Obviously if the insurance company shoots it down I'll just enjoy my fancy '50 year' roof until the next time massive hail stones crash down on it.   But I honestly don't know why they would care.  "Replacement" for my next roof would be cheaper if I use standard 30 year shingles this time.

[deadshank 24653]

What kind of shingle is it?

One  would think your IC would want you to replace with similar priced shingle but they may not.  If they don't care then go with your plan. 

How do you have $50K of uninsured interior damage?

[Skipper 6136]

Shingle is Certainteed Grand Manor.    Uninsured part is water damage that didn't come in through the roof (long story short, storm drain in alley clogged during crazy ass storm and water backed into house)

[Skipper 6136]

Well as a follow up for anyone that might have the same question, insurance company is fine with the approach but as I expected their position is that waives my ability to receive recoverable depreciation.  Not only related to the roof but under the entire estimate (i.e., for gutters etc.).   So now weighing those options and may just forego repairing some of the cosmetic damage to things like gutters, etc.

[C-Man 27230]

19 hours ago, Skipper said:

Shingle is Certainteed Grand Manor.    Uninsured part is water damage that didn't come in through the roof (long story short, storm drain in alley clogged during crazy ass storm and water backed into house)

There are better HO policies that cover Water Backup. There are also homeowner policies that cover roofs for Replacement Cost. Just FYI. Oh, and many do give credits for having Class IV-rated hail resistant roofs. You'll need to decide if your carrier's credit is enough to warrant the higher cost to install. But many are cutting back -- or getting rid of -- the credit because as you've seen a roof that was supposed to last 50 years made it only six.

Many carriers will pay a portion of the claim cost up front to start the project -- often half -- but then won't pay the balance until the work is completed and verified. This is because many roofers are notoriously dishonest. The deadshanks are few-and-far-between.

Edited July 9, 2019 by C-Man

[Skipper 6136]

26 minutes ago, C-Man said:

There are better HO policies that cover Water Backup. There are also homeowner policies that cover roofs for Replacement Cost. Just FYI. Oh, and many do give credits for having Class IV-rated hail resistant roofs. You'll need to decide if your carrier's credit is enough to warrant the higher cost to install. But many are cutting back -- or getting rid of -- the credit because as you've seen a roof that was supposed to last 50 years made it only six.

Many carriers will pay a portion of the claim cost up front to start the project -- often half -- but then won't pay the balance until the work is completed and verified. This is because many roofers are notoriously dishonest. The deadshanks are few-and-far-between.

Thanks.   Yes, water back up was a no-go.  I tried to argue it but under my policy there was language that implied it might be covered in the main policy that was then completely re-written/replaced under the "Texas" specific provisions.  I did get replacement cost for the roof.  But only the actual cost up front.   The rest I could get via recoverable depreciation if I did repair all the damage (gutters and a handful of other random stuff).  Basically I have a check for around $28K with it being confirmed I can't recover around $7K in depreciation costs if I don't replace in accordance with the estimate.  So now getting bids assuming multiple scenarios and working through all the numbers.  

If I didn't have the interior damage I would probably just cut my deductible check and say fix everything I'm getting insurance for and call it a day without all the brain damage, but this approach providing significantly more flexibility.    

[C-Man 27230]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Thanks.   Yes, water back up was a no-go.  I tried to argue it but under my policy there was language that implied it might be covered in the main policy that was then completely re-written/replaced under the "Texas" specific provisions.  I did get replacement cost for the roof.  But only the actual cost up front.   The rest I could get via recoverable depreciation if I did repair all the damage (gutters and a handful of other random stuff).  Basically I have a check for around $28K with it being confirmed I can't recover around $7K in depreciation costs if I don't replace in accordance with the estimate.  So now getting bids assuming multiple scenarios and working through all the numbers.  

If I didn't have the interior damage I would probably just cut my deductible check and say fix everything I'm getting insurance for and call it a day without all the brain damage, but this approach providing significantly more flexibility.    

Which carrier if you don't mind my asking?

[Skipper 6136]

16 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Which carrier if you don't mind my asking?

Liberty Mutual

[deadshank 24653]

On 7/8/2019 at 6:24 PM, Skipper said:

Shingle is Certainteed Grand Manor.    Uninsured part is water damage that didn't come in through the roof (long story short, storm drain in alley clogged during crazy ass storm and water backed into house)

Dude.  You’ve got a CT Grand Manor roof on your house (so do I)  and it’s a bad ass, great looking shingle.  Put the same thing back on and hire a roofer that has installed that shingle more than once.   They don’t set up and install like normal shingles and the accessory / trim shingles are different than the norm. Don’t let some dumbass talk you into going back with a run of the mill Timberline of Landmark.  

Edited July 9, 2019 by deadshank

[Clintonaldo 2574]

Your insurance owes you for what you had at time of loss minus depreciation. 

[Skipper 6136]

2 hours ago, deadshank said:

Dude.  You’ve got a CT Grand Manor roof on your house (so do I)  and it’s a bad ass, great looking shingle.  Put the same thing back on and hire a roofer that has installed that shingle more than once.   They don’t set up and install like normal shingles and the accessory / trim shingles are different than the norm. Don’t let some dumbass talk you into going back with a run of the mill Timberline of Landmark.  

I hear you but this isn't about someone talking me into anything.  My idea and potentially saving several thousand out of pocket (with insurance company's blessing) which is a big factor while I'm cutting $10K checks left and right restoring uninsured interior damage.   Roof aesthetics aren't that important to me but weighing all options as bids come in.  Haven't ruled it out yet.   

[zork 629]

Where are you located?

[Gil Bang 25961]

San Diego.  Why do you ask?

[Skipper 6136]

Further update in case anyone searches this thread later with similar issue. After pressing the adjuster, I will only lose depreciation on the shingles if I went with traditional.  Which is what I thought would be the case initially.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 7/9/2019 at 7:25 PM, deadshank said:

Dude.  You’ve got a CT Grand Manor roof on your house (so do I)  and it’s a bad ass, great looking shingle.  Put the same thing back on and hire a roofer that has installed that shingle more than once.   They don’t set up and install like normal shingles and the accessory / trim shingles are different than the norm. Don’t let some dumbass talk you into going back with a run of the mill Timberline of Landmark.  

Not a fan of the Grand manor shingle profile at all, I actually prefer the look of the GAF Timberline shingle. cleaner, and not the busy, contrived look of the clipped corner shingle.  You're paying for the name IMO.

[deadshank 24653]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Not a fan of the Grand manor shingle profile at all, I actually prefer the look of the GAF Timberline shingle. cleaner, and not the busy, contrived look of the clipped corner shingle.  You're paying for the name IMO.

That's why we have horse races. 

[ROFL BOX 6649]

Hi, to both @Skipper & @NeverMarryAStripper - if y'all haven't locked onto a contractor, please PLEASE let me talk with you.

1.  I would for sure go with the better quality shingle & given the $$ for the Grand Manor, you can easily get an ASTM Class IV rated shingle that will provide better hail resistance AND give you the % discount that @deadshank mentioned prior.
2.  I'm on the tail end of a vacation to Yellowstone & back to Texas; our transmission shit the bed 1/2 way between Fort Sumner & Clovis, so we are overnighting it here & I am taking the time to dig into this thread (DeadShank knew I was traveling; could have noted it on here but so far, all he did was "ha ha" my transmission issue via a FB post).  Dickhead.
3.  Anyhow... Never, Shank can assist you as he's in the HOU market (but, again, he avoids insurance claims due to t he vast % of  shady stormchasers who are only out for a fast buck).  I could do both projects & do have an interest in these jobs as I'm out  1 transmission AND recently had another massive ca$h dent that Shank knows about.

Lemme know if I can help.

[Skipper 6136]

I'm in Dallas but pretty much locked in at this point.  Thanks though.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

'k.

I think somewhere up there prior I saw it was Dallas; we have done many projects up there & spent the whole summer doing Shag & other folks roofs from a couple of big ones that blew through the area.