UT to give full scholarships to in-state students from families making less than $65K

[tx 3 putt 76908]

Will citizenship status be checked ?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

11 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Horde really is a fantastic word and under used, imo.

your mother horde her way through college

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

I would guess that after scholarships and grants for lower income kids, this new program won’t have to pay as much as the headlines are showing but great news in leading education.

Public universities should be concerned about potential federal govt programs that would make college free.  Those types of programs would decide the tuition rates and the universities would have to accept it. Most likely the feds would pay low rates forcing the schools to find money elsewhere or drastically lower their budgets. By implementing programs like one announced by UT, they may be able to prevent or delay any “free college for all” programs. 

 

[Beau Vine 54212]

16 hours ago, BurdineBandit said:

I thought it was a cool idea until you actually read it and realize the universities are just offering gap coverage.

How does that make it less cool?

[Beau Vine 54212]

9 hours ago, mdmost said:

Is this even that big an issue to bother with? Has there been a huge increase in emancipated teens lately?

There are hordes of them.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

13 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

So many people have basically no idea what life is really like for the majority of people.

Hey man, I want to be able to afford to send my kid to college AND get a new F150 every couple years, and I need that f150 because my wife doesn't want her infinity qx getting all dirty when we have to pull the ski boat to the lake house.  Sheeit man us middle class just can catch a break.

[tx 3 putt 76908]

9 hours ago, BurdineBandit said:

This thread and a thread on someone asking about moving to Austin have really opened my eyes to who posts on this board. Y'all muhfuckas rich as shit. "Can I really be expected to live somewhere around Austin with a meager $150,000 income between my wife and I who don't have kids yet but plan to soon?" If you don't get the f on....

My first surly meet up / lunch, more than one person showed up in $75k+ vehicles, many wearing a $10k+ watche and a monocle or two. 

Ok, I’m lying about the monocle 

[mdmost 43001]

9 hours ago, futureman said:

there’s about to be 

Jennifer Lawrence okay gif

[Rougarou 594]

5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Jennifer Lawrence okay gif

What is the downside of emanciating an 18 year old, if you get free college out of it? It's not like they can't still come to Thanksgiving and Christmas or something.

[TexMex Horn 68]

I would like to see all qualifying kids get into a State university, even if it costs us tax or PUF dollars. However, I would also like to see restrictions on degree paths. If you want a free ride, these are the fields of study to pursue. Now, who decides the "correct" fields is another question

[TexMex Horn 68]

A slight addendum: Not ALL kids should get in. There's just not enough space

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

58 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

What is the downside of emanciating an 18 year old, if you get free college out of it? It's not like they can't still come to Thanksgiving and Christmas or something.

I hope you did not receive a scholarship to go to Texas. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

11 minutes ago, TexMex Horn said:

A slight addendum: Not ALL kids should get in. There's just not enough space

there is nothing about this that changes admission standards.

[sidis 9826]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

What is the downside of emanciating an 18 year old, if you get free college out of it? It's not like they can't still come to Thanksgiving and Christmas or something. 

for fuck's sake...

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

seems like poor kids could just dress up like bookshelves and hide in the back of classes and get education for free and then steal someone's id and sneak into gregory and beat me and my friend in basketball but it was brians fault he missed the open layup and the poor kids could get a degree by stealing a degree and the degree would be a bad degree if they let this go that is how i think it is going to go with all the poor kids whats keeping it from happening id keep a lookout on increased bookshelf costume purchases or thefts really cause theyre poor kids thats where this is all going /rougarou.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

17 hours ago, Rougarou said:

How does this work. Hypothetically could one just quit his job and take a sabbatical and not make more than $65k the child's senior year and then get a free ride for a year or two? What is tuition like $30k a year now for in-state? Just trying to think through (as I'm sure they have) how it would be abused and how one could catch it and avoid it.

They will probably use the FAFSA info which you already have to fill out every year for student aid and which includes parental income. 

Any parent who can afford to quit their job for a year and be able to get that job back at the same pay after being unemployed for a year is going to be way over the 65k threshold and this scheme wouldn't even cross his mind or be worthwhile. 

[Rougarou 594]

4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

seems like poor kids could just dress up like bookshelves and hide in the back of classes and get education for free and then steal someone's id and sneak into gregory and beat me and my friend in basketball but it was brians fault he missed the open layup and the poor kids could get a degree by stealing a degree and the degree would be a bad degree if they let this go that is how i think it is going to go with all the poor kids whats keeping it from happening id keep a lookout on increased bookshelf costume purchases or thefts really cause theyre poor kids thats where this is all going /rougarou.

You got me all wrong; I love this and am proud of the UT for doing this and think it's nothing short of awesome. I don't care if it is or isn't for the PR, it's a great step in the right direction. I guess asking some ancillary questions about how people are/can abuse this and thinking through the entire process workflow of this policy change is a bridge too far for the ACC crowd, though.

[Rougarou 594]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

They will probably use the FAFSA info which you already have to fill out every year for student aid and which includes parental income. 

Any parent who can afford to quit their job for a year and be able to get that job back at the same pay after being unemployed for a year is going to be way over the 65k threshold and this scheme wouldn't even cross his mind or be worthwhile. 

This and like TwiceHorn said about the 3 year average makes a ton of sense. I was just thinking I could see a lot of people with a lot of money in the bank who are self-employed professionals, like lawyers or something outside of industry that is pretty flexible, potentially taking a year to do missionary work or pro-bono work in order to help little privilege Johnny get free school for a year or two. 

It sounds like the juice to defraud this thing wouldnt be worth the squeeze which means it's a great policy.

[Captainant 27655]

8 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

They will probably use the FAFSA info which you already have to fill out every year for student aid and which includes parental income. 

I hope they don't rely on the FAFSA too much, or at the very least don't base it on estimated family contribution (EFC). My mom works in UT's financial aid dept and has been in higher ed administration for the last 15 years or so, and boy let me tell you, EFC is a dogshit metric that in no way reflects a family's ability to support a student. Very interested to see more nuts and bolts details on this new policy, I hope it's actually accessible to students and not just a pretty idea that's actually out of reach.

[Dahobbs 17534]

21 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

This and like TwiceHorn said about the 3 year average makes a ton of sense. I was just thinking I could see a lot of people with a lot of money in the bank who are self-employed professionals, like lawyers or something outside of industry that is pretty flexible, potentially taking a year to do missionary work or pro-bono work in order to help little privilege Johnny get free school for a year or two. 

It sounds like the juice to defraud this thing wouldnt be worth the squeeze which means it's a great policy.

Pretty sure the way it is setup with a graduated decrease in aid from 65k to 125k makes that sort of fraud uneconomical. You'd be giving up more money than you'd be receiving in aid. It is sort of like trying to "save on taxes" by making less money. 

[Js1 85313]

21 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I hope they don't rely on the FAFSA too much, or at the very least don't base it on estimated family contribution (EFC). My mom works in UT's financial aid dept and has been in higher ed administration for the last 15 years or so, and boy let me tell you, EFC is a dogshit metric that in no way reflects a family's ability to support a student. Very interested to see more nuts and bolts details on this new policy, I hope it's actually accessible to students and not just a pretty idea that's actually out of reach.

EFC is total dog shit.  I got nothing because the EFC was too high, it said.  My parent's actual family contribution: $0. 

[tx 3 putt 76908]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

EFC is total dog shit.  I got nothing because the EFC was too high, it said.  My parent's actual family contribution: $0. 

So your family hated / hates you ?

[Gene Parmesan 4005]

2 hours ago, Rougarou said:

What is the downside of emanciating an 18 year old, if you get free college out of it? It's not like they can't still come to Thanksgiving and Christmas or something.

They have an express lane now for emancipating 18 year olds.  Your in and out in 5 minutes. 

[Huckleberry 32854]

2 hours ago, Rougarou said:

What is the downside of emanciating an 18 year old, if you get free college out of it? It's not like they can't still come to Thanksgiving and Christmas or something.

Well they could die of starvantion if they get too emanciated.

[clapclapclap 9000]

17 hours ago, Pancho said:

Might not mean much, but my community college students always tell me "Professor Pancho, I really want to go to UT but I can't afford it." 

 

Professor Pancho, do your students raise a flag when they want to ask a question?

[futureman 22453]

20 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

They have an express lane now for emancipating 18 year olds.  Your in and out in 5 minutes. 

“your in and out”?  is that a euphemism?  we talkin bout sex???

[gecko 1104]

When I put my 3 kids through UT (first one entered 2007 last one walked 2014) I was earning over double the $65K threshold and it was dam f**king hard to pay tuition and associated living costs + keep a modest household going, pay taxes and basically do life.  I'm glad the PUF is being put to good use but what about using those $$ to moderate tuition costs for all students not just make it free for a few.

I guess the current approach makes better headlines (it made the local news in NYC this morning) and makes us all feel good about ourselves...but whatever...put me down as not impressed.

Edited July 10, 2019 by gecko

[Rougarou 594]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Well they could die of starvantion if they get too emanciated.

Nice. golf clap.

[Huckleberry 32854]

1 hour ago, gecko said:

When I put my 3 kids through UT (first one entered 2007 last one walked 2014) I was earning over double the $65K threshold and it was dam f**king hard to pay tuition and associated living costs + keep a modest household going, pay taxes and basically do life.  I'm glad the PUF is being put to good use but what about using those $$ to moderate tuition costs for all students not just make it free for a few.

I guess the current approach makes better headlines (it made the local news in NYC this morning) and makes us all feel good about ourselves...but whatever...put me down as not impressed.

You could always trade places with a household making $65K. I'm sure plenty would take you up on the offer.

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 hour ago, gecko said:

When I put my 3 kids through UT (first one entered 2007 last one walked 2014) I was earning over double the $65K threshold and it was dam f**king hard to pay tuition and associated living costs + keep a modest household going, pay taxes and basically do life.  I'm glad the PUF is being put to good use but what about using those $$ to moderate tuition costs for all students not just make it free for a few.

I guess the current approach makes better headlines (it made the local news in NYC this morning) and makes us all feel good about ourselves...but whatever...put me down as not impressed.

Yeah, jeez, how dare they do something to benefit someone that isn't you? Those motherfuckers. And what about all those assholes that donate to charity? Why aren't they donating to me too?

[Murfdogg21 4412]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

EFC is total dog shit.  I got nothing because the EFC was too high, it said.  My parent's actual family contribution: $0. 

Ditto. My family’s total household income when I started almost 20 years ago was around $80k. I didn’t qualify for a dollar of aid, all my dad did was point me to Sallie Mae to take out my own loans, which I paid back over 10-12 years. I know expenses have gone up, but so has entry level pay if you don’t get a dog shit degree. I do not understand how my situation is all that different from “poor people”, so I guess @huckleberry was correct that I am ignorant to the realities of poverty. However, I’d imagine that “poor kids” in the top 6% are getting need based scholarships and aid that I didn’t get, so if anything they (as individual students) may be better off than I was in terms of debt after college graduation. 

[Beau Vine 54212]

3 hours ago, Rougarou said:

This and like TwiceHorn said about the 3 year average makes a ton of sense. I was just thinking I could see a lot of people with a lot of money in the bank who are self-employed professionals, like lawyers or something outside of industry that is pretty flexible, potentially taking a year to do missionary work or pro-bono work in order to help little privilege Johnny get free school for a year or two. 

It sounds like the juice to defraud this thing wouldnt be worth the squeeze which means it's a great policy.

lawyers doing missionary work?  You've gone fully daft.

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

1 hour ago, gecko said:

When I put my 3 kids through UT (first one entered 2007 last one walked 2014) I was earning over double the $65K threshold and it was dam f**king hard to pay tuition and associated living costs + keep a modest household going, pay taxes and basically do life.  I'm glad the PUF is being put to good use but what about using those $$ to moderate tuition costs for all students not just make it free for a few.

I guess the current approach makes better headlines (it made the local news in NYC this morning) and makes us all feel good about ourselves...but whatever...put me down as not impressed.

Maybe your dumb kids should have studied harder and received merit based scholarships to UT. Then you wouldn't have to live like one of these filthy poors who are now going to be driving around in Ferraris since they get to go to school for free. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Hank Scorpio

[Dahobbs 17534]

11 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Ditto. My family’s total household income when I started almost 20 years ago was around $80k. I didn’t qualify for a dollar of aid, all my dad did was point me to Sallie Mae to take out my own loans, which I paid back over 10-12 years. I know expenses have gone up, but so has entry level pay if you don’t get a dog shit degree. I do not understand how my situation is all that different from “poor people”, so I guess @huckleberry was correct that I am ignorant to the realities of poverty. However, I’d imagine that “poor kids” in the top 6% are getting need based scholarships and aid that I didn’t get, so if anything they (as individual students) may be better off than I was in terms of debt after college graduation. 

It is so strange to look at the world and see everything that someone else gets as somehow meaning less for you and not just something more for them. Yes, there is always going to be a line. But here it isn't a straight drop off here, it is a graduated decrease in aid. Also, $80K twenty years ago is close to $120K nowadays.  

[Surly Bevo 24908]

The optimist in me thinks this is awesome for education and the state. 

 

The cynic in me me thinks that this likely wasn’t a benevolent act and somebody figured out that this was a good way to continue to feed the beast of the growing “college bubble”

[Murfdogg21 4412]

14 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Also, $80K twenty years ago is close to $120K nowadays.  

Yes, but tuition and living expenses are not still at 2003 levels either. Calling families that earn closer to $200k aristocrats isn’t very accurate anymore either, unless you live in Waco or Lampassas. If the projections of 2035 hold up and it’s $50k+ per year per kid, I don’t know how my kids will go to UT unless they get saddled with a lot more loan debt than I did.  I like the idea of tuition relief, but I think their brackets are not large enough and the amount of debt “middle/upper middle class” students will take on compared to students with tuition relief is inequitable, regardless of if their parents owned a 2010 Honda vs the other kids parents taking the bus. 

[gecko 1104]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, jeez, how dare they do something to benefit someone that isn't you? Those motherfuckers. And what about all those assholes that donate to charity? Why aren't they donating to me too?

You and Huck totally missed the point, or maybe my point was poorly made.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that point before calling you out as an assface.  It wasn't about me, it was about people like me and people not as well off as me, but too well off to get any relief.  Level the costs for everyone not just the few.

[phdhorn 6224]

Since I'm paying for my kid to be at UT, I wonder if I can tap into the schollie for myself, since he's got all my money.

[jimmyjazz 45903]

I can see what might be an unintended consequence here, and I'm not completely willing to call it bad:  some fraction of the top 6% who qualified for auto-admission but couldn't afford tuition will now be able to, which will ultimately drive that top X% requirement even smaller.  5%, 4%, whatever.

Before anyone accuses me of being selfish, I don't think either of my current HS students will make top 6%, although it's possible.  It's not about me.  I find the policy arbitrary, and have long thought a little more nuance in blending class rank with standardized test scores along with a holistic review would make some sense.  Obviously, that's not happening.  It doesn't mean that making it even more difficult for a bunch of strong students to get into UT is a good thing.

All that said, I love the tuition support.  I'm completely on board with the insanely rich university helping out low-income students.  Can't argue with that.

Edited July 10, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can see what might be an unintended consequence here, and I'm not completely willing to call it bad:  some fraction of the top 6% who qualified for auto-admission but couldn't afford tuition will now be able to, which will ultimately drive that top X% requirement even smaller.  5%, 4%, whatever.

It's a tangent but it's very shortsighted of the Texas govt to not bring other schools up to top tier status. Population is exploding but UT size has been capped at the approximate level for 30 years. I think it's even technically shrunk. Wasn't '88 or '89 the largest student sizes?  To keep up with population growth, seems like there should have been a new top tier school created over that time.

[jimmyjazz 45903]

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's a tangent but it's very shortsighted of the Texas govt to not bring other schools up to top tier status. Population is exploding but UT size has been capped at the approximate level for 30 years. I think it's even technically shrunk. Wasn't '88 or '89 the largest student sizes?  To keep up with population growth, seems like there should have been a new top tier school created over that time.

Yes, this has been discussed several times on one of (Brisket's?) threads.  When you look at the Tier-1-ish schools in the California system and compare them to those in Texas, normalized to population, it's depressing. 

What's even more depressing is what seems to be a disturbing trend at the state government level towards dumbing down what quality public institutions we have, namely A&M.  There is a not-insignificant perception out there that UT-Dallas may actually be the equivalent or better to A&M when it comes to academics.  I think that's a shame, and I'm a Longhorn.

[Dahobbs 17534]

46 minutes ago, gecko said:

You and Huck totally missed the point, or maybe my point was poorly made.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that point before calling you out as an assface.  It wasn't about me, it was about people like me and people not as well off as me, but too well off to get any relief.  Level the costs for everyone not just the few.

Right, and my point is that there is always a line. You want that line to include you (and others like you), but it will inevitably not include someone else. What do you think that person will say? Look, I'm all for more tuition support, but at some point there has to be a cut off. Top 15%ish of the population seems like a fairly reasonable and justifiable one to me. And  I certainly think it is a reasonable enough starting point that it doesn't deserve immediate griping of "but what about me?" You want to argue that we should do more? Go for it. But when that call to action sounds either completely self-serving or like sour grapes, you'll excuse me if I don't find it the most compelling argument. 

Full disclosure: this policy would not have helped me out of high school and it isn't going to help my kid(s). I'm still for it and excited about the change because I think it can do good for some people that could really use it. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can see what might be an unintended consequence here, and I'm not completely willing to call it bad:  some fraction of the top 6% who qualified for auto-admission but couldn't afford tuition will now be able to, which will ultimately drive that top X% requirement even smaller.  5%, 4%, whatever.

Before anyone accuses me of being selfish, I don't think either of my current HS students will make top 6%, although it's possible.  It's not about me.  I find the policy arbitrary, and have long thought a little more nuance in blending class rank with standardized test scores along with a holistic review would make some sense.  Obviously, that's not happening.  It doesn't mean that making it even more difficult for a bunch of strong students to get into UT is a good thing.

All that said, I love the tuition support.  I'm completely on board with the insanely rich university helping out low-income students.  Can't argue with that.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. 

[SydneyCarton 48079]

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Ditto. My family’s total household income when I started almost 20 years ago was around $80k. I didn’t qualify for a dollar of aid, all my dad did was point me to Sallie Mae to take out my own loans, which I paid back over 10-12 years. I know expenses have gone up, but so has entry level pay if you don’t get a dog shit degree. I do not understand how my situation is all that different from “poor people”, so I guess @huckleberry was correct that I am ignorant to the realities of poverty. However, I’d imagine that “poor kids” in the top 6% are getting need based scholarships and aid that I didn’t get, so if anything they (as individual students) may be better off than I was in terms of debt after college graduation. 

You don't understand how your situation is different from "poor people's" because it's fucking obvious you've never been fucking Poor. 

Lets put it this way, 20 years ago your household income was STILL about 18% more than the people who qualify for it TODAY. Ignoring inflation and salary explosions and cost of living explosions. And you don't see how people who make substantially less now than your household did 20 years ago are all that different from you?  I stopped reading the rest of your shit right there. Newsflash dude, top 6% of kids aren't just swimming in scholarship and aid. If that were the case every kid auto-admitted to UT would be receiving aid. That is not the case.

[SydneyCarton 48079]

29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's a tangent but it's very shortsighted of the Texas govt to not bring other schools up to top tier status. Population is exploding but UT size has been capped at the approximate level for 30 years. I think it's even technically shrunk. Wasn't '88 or '89 the largest student sizes?  To keep up with population growth, seems like there should have been a new top tier school created over that time.

The UT System is doing outstanding work elevating Dallas and UTSA into higher level status as schools. It's not on par with the Cali public system of schools, but we are making significant progress bringing more of our UT system schools into higher levels. 

[jimmyjazz 45903]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. 

Don't let poorly-effected altruism be the enemy of a world class university.

[SydneyCarton 48079]

17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Don't let poorly-effected altruism be the enemy of a world class university.

I'd love to know how helping out kids who have already qualified for entry into UT by the existing standards are going to somehow be the enemy of remaining a world class university. Or are you saying that currently UT is not a world class university and instead needs better policies to aspire to be one?

Edited July 10, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[Dahobbs 17534]

17 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'd love to know how helping out kids who have already for entry into UT by the existing standards are going to somehow be the enemy of remaining a world class university. Or are you saying that currently UT is not a world class university and instead needs better policies to aspire to be one?

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. Admission standards and this aren't really related. Yes, I got his previous point that maybe some more kids who are auto-admitted can afford to go now, but that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. It certainly isn't a big enough negative to ditch what appears to be a pretty fucking awesome program to help those who are less fortunate climb the social rungs. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Dahobbs

[jimmyjazz 45903]

I already said I support and applaud the tuition program, so y'all can step right off that soapbox pronto.

I am firmly of the opinion that top 6% auto-admission standards with nothing but a "holistic" review for the remaining 25% of the available spots is damaging to this university.  I was pretty fucking clear on that.  I think the auto-admit standard could be drafted such that it doesn't penalize at least some of the kids who are outstanding students while still maintaining plenty of spots for kids from underperforming and poorer school districts.  At this point the policy is grossly constructed and doesn't best serve the needs of both the university and the state as a whole.

[Beau Vine 54212]

22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The UT System is doing outstanding work elevating Dallas and UTSA into higher level status as schools. It's not on par with the Cali public system of schools, but we are making significant progress bringing more of our UT system schools into higher levels. 

A UT-Houston campus also would have been great progress, but that was torpedoed by numbnuts out of the UT system.