For or against reparations?

[David Dennison 18952]

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

For.

If, say, the Irish had been the most enslaved group, they'd still be bitching about it ten times more than black people do. Every white English-ancestry motherfucker would be getting neck-tattoos in Gaelic and crying drunk at Pogues knock-off concerts

Well hell, I guess that happened anyway.

For more practical reasons, I live in an area that is about 50% African-American, and would enjoy seeing my fellow citizens awash in cash.  Why yes, I would like another drink, thank you sir.

We need more Tron Carters in this country.

[wildcat09 29439]

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

For.

If, say, the Irish had been the most enslaved group, they'd still be bitching about it ten times more than black people do. Every white English-ancestry motherfucker would be getting neck-tattoos in Gaelic and crying drunk at Pogues knock-off concerts

Well hell, I guess that happened anyway.

For more practical reasons, I live in an area that is about 50% African-American, and would enjoy seeing my fellow citizens awash in cash.  Why yes, I would like another drink, thank you sir.

Could y'all even imagine if Slorch or Swam had to live even a day as a black man?

[David Dennison 18952]

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

52 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

 

OK.

Let's have the former Confederate States pony up.

Uhh.... never mind.

[American Swindle 102]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

This does absolutely nothing to establish expertise or credibility, as anyone who knows anyone who works in finance can attest. The idea that the financial industry is most knowledgeable regarding good fiscal policy is a fucking joke. The hogs don't know how to grow crops, just just know how to eat what others grow.

It's amazing how you guys all rely on the same bullshit slogans, never have anything meaningful to say, and think you're smart.

Yes, because you don't know what the hell you're talking about. We have been "just spending" money that we have invented out of nothing since we left the gold standard. And even the gold standard is illusory. Money is a promise and we can print as much as we want as long as the promise holds, which is what we have been doing very successfully for 5 decades, as you well know.

So as long as we don't see hyperinflation coming (which it isn't, and which we can easily and successfully fight if it even starts), can you tell me what the problem is? Have you taken enough economics classes to even BEGIN to explain the problem?

No, what you have is training in how to be a jackal and the same idiotic catchphrases the jackals bark at each other to make themselves feel smart.

What an odd way of admitting you know absolutely nothing about economics or money. 

The gold standard is illusory?  Money is a promise?  Say it with me: MONEY IS A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE.As @bernorange has reiterated many times, OPEC is what is keeping our currency afloat.  Also, government interventions into the market have sent the wrong signals to consumers and lenders FOREVER thus directing resources to areas they wouldn't have otherwise been directed if they had gotten the fuck out of the way in the first place.  Remember the housing bubble?  

Let me ask you a simple question: If you're a farmer and you are selling Whole Milk at 2$/gallon and then decide to dilute the whole milk with 20% water and sell it as Whole Milk, what would you call that?  Inflation or stealing?  

But yeah, let's just give the Federal Apparatus carte blanche to print and finance everything because they know what's best while the poor and middle class get the shaft by inflation (an indirect hidden tax.) 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by American Swindle

[RDCanecutter 26482]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Damn. Busting out kids when you are in your 80’s. Stud. 

 

That's back when they knew how to fix bayonets.

[David Dennison 18952]

29 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

What an odd way of admitting you know absolutely nothing about economics or money. 

The gold standard is illusory?  Money is a promise?  Say it with me: MONEY IS A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE.As @bernorange has reiterated many times, OPEC is what is keeping our currency afloat.  Also, government interventions into the market have sent the wrong signals to consumers and lenders FOREVER thus directing resources to areas they wouldn't have otherwise been directed if they had gotten the fuck out of the way in the first place.  Remember the housing bubble?  

Let me ask you a simple question: If you're a farmer and you are selling Whole Milk at 2$/gallon and then decide to dilute the whole milk with 20% water and sell it as Whole Milk, what would you call that?  Inflation or stealing?  

But yeah, let's just give the Federal Apparatus carte blanche to print and finance everything because they know what's best while the poor and middle class get the shaft by inflation (an indirect hidden tax.) 

This nation would have collapsed a long time ago without government intervention into the market. 

If you're OK with that, cool.

[bad_teammate 13226]

We have literally given the "Federal Apparatus carte blanche to print and finance everything" for a century and we're the most powerful and wealthy nation in the history of human existence.

lol fucking idiots.

[American Swindle 102]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This nation would have collapsed a long time ago without government intervention into the market. 

If you're OK with that, cool.

Quote

No. But I understand why they were necessary.

 

With insights like the above you really have me persuaded.  Can you give us some examples? You say you weren't okay with the Bailouts in 2008, but say they were necessary and don't really offer anything of substance after that.  Care to expand?  I suppose you're okay with corporatism and bankers shafting us because it was "necessary for some reason." lolz. 

 

 

[David Dennison 18952]

2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

With insights like the above you really have me persuaded.  Can you give us some examples? You say you weren't okay with the Bailouts in 2008, but say they were necessary and don't really offer anything of substance after that.  Care to expand?  I suppose you're okay with corporatism and bankers shafting us because it was "necessary for some reason." lolz. 

The New Deal comes to mind.

Also, I'm not trying to persuade you of anything.

Edited July 10, 2019 by David Dennison

[52-80 19271]

Aren't the current NBA and NFL salaries reparations enough?

[American Swindle 102]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

We have literally given the "Federal Apparatus carte blanche to print and finance everything" for a century and we're the most powerful and wealthy nation in the history of human existence.

lol fucking idiots.

22 trillion in debt, health insurance/health care is expensive as shit, college is expensive as shit, money is being wasted everywhere you look within government and we're wealthy?  Do you have half a million in debt personally while only making 50-60k a year and consider your self wealthy?  

Good job at reaffirming your ignorance on economic reality once again.  Money is just a promise! Lulz fucking idiot. 

 

 

[David Dennison 18952]

3 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

22 trillion in debt, health insurance/health care is expensive as shit, college is expensive as shit, money is being wasted everywhere you look within government and we're wealthy?  Do you have half a million in debt personally while only making 50-60k a year and consider your self wealthy?  

Good job at reaffirming your ignorance on economic reality once again.  Money is just a promise! Lulz fucking idiot. 

That depends on your assets. The United States has assets worth a whole lot more than $22 trillion.

Edited July 10, 2019 by David Dennison

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

16 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

 and don't really offer anything of substance. 

 

It's his go to

[David Dennison 18952]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

It's his go to

I figured he was smart enough to figure out that it was to prevent the banking system from collapsing. 

I guess not.

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

He thinks going from 2 to 29 is a bigger % increase than going from 16 to 70. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

*****Smaller

[American Swindle 102]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

That depends on your assets. The United States has assets worth a whole lot more than $22 trillion.

Yes, you are correct, but those assets are estimated reportedly around 128 Trillion. Want to guess what our unfunded liabilities are all around?  More than that....by like around 100 Trillion.  

 

http://business.time.com/2013/02/05/the-federal-governments-128-trillion-stockpile-the-answer-to-our-debt-problems/

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-29/true-size-us-national-debt-including-unfunded-liabilities-222-trillion-dollars

 

 

/Doginafirememe

 

[American Swindle 102]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

I figured he was smart enough to figure out that it was to prevent the banking system from collapsing. 

I guess not.

In free market capitalism, businesses that defraud the public go out of business

in crony capitalism, businesses that defraud the people get a bailout to put their chips back on the table and the CEO's get fat bonuses from our tax dollars.  

You're obviously okay with the idea of defrauding Americans, I'm not.

[bad_teammate 13226]

Healthcare is expensive because there isn't enough government intervention. The same is true for college. Both are examples of the government trying to prop up a series of profitable/wasteful private industries providing necessary public services. Both should be 100% government-run.

And yes, money is a promise. It's the promise of a future trade. That is literally the point of having money instead of just being a barter economy.

[bad_teammate 13226]

love to get my information and analysis from Fight Club characters

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Healthcare is expensive because there isn't enough government intervention. The same is true for college. Both are examples of the government trying to prop up a series of profitable/wasteful private industries providing necessary public services. Both should be 100% government-run.

And yes, money is a promise. It's the promise of a future trade. That is literally the point of having money instead of just being a barter economy.

Exactly what do you mean there isn't enough gov't intervention ?

[EuroHorn 3272]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Exactly what do you mean there isn't enough gov't intervention ?

Increase demand on colleges and the prices come down...

[bad_teammate 13226]

Free market capitalism is good for things that don't matter. Underwear, high-end telephones, private jets, etc...

When it comes to things that are necessary for human life, we need government (i.e., the people's collective will) ensuring that those necessary goods and services are available to everyone. If something is necessary, then no one can be priced out of acquiring it as is the case with free market capitalism. This hybrid system we have for post-12th education and healthcare is extremely wasteful (i.e., profitable).

The government should have already instituted price controls on educational costs.

 

[David Dennison 18952]

1 hour ago, American Swindle said:

In free market capitalism, businesses that defraud the public go out of business

in crony capitalism, businesses that defraud the people get a bailout to put their chips back on the table and the CEO's get fat bonuses from our tax dollars.  

You're obviously okay with the idea of defrauding Americans, I'm not.

Please provide an example of free market capitalism in the real world.

[TwiceHorn 31624]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Exactly what do you mean there isn't enough gov't intervention ?

Sweet jeebus.  Healthcare is expensive because a) there is extremely imperfect information in the market and b) demand for it is almost perfectly price inelastic.  In short, people are completely ignorant and totally irrational about healthcare. Government intervention is one way of dealing with these problems.  But a lack of it is not the source of the problem.  And even b_t's wonderful, magical, fix everything government can't fix b).  And that's why healthcare is a shitshow even in countries where government controls it.

It's never not going to be a shitshow.

Edited July 11, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[bad_teammate 13226]

Ignorant? Maybe, but why?

Irrational, though? What does that even mean?

There is no way for people to know what they should be doing because we utilize healthcare when we don't know what to do. That's why it exists.

[David Dennison 18952]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Ignorant? Maybe, but why?

Irrational, though? What does that even mean?

There is no way for people to know what they should be doing because we utilize healthcare when we don't know what to do. That's why it exists.

It means they demand antibiotics even after the doctor tells them they have a virus.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Could y'all even imagine if Slorch or Swam had to live even a day as a black man?

What the fuck do  I have to do with this?

My buddies I grew up with in gov’t housing, you know my token black friends that are still my friends today; joke like a motherfucker that I only made it out because I was white.

of course they made it too, so I give them credit for having such a hard fucking row to hoe because of their skin color.

 

you scorekeepin motherfuckers have not a clue what it takes in life to overcome.  Keep embracing your crutches and bullshit excuses...  You don't have a fucking clue what other people have been through.

Thoughts and prayers for all that guilt you fucking carry around.  It’s a lame ass excuse for a cause in life.

Don’t put that shit on me, yo.

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by slorch

[Asithappens 974]

Against.

No matter how good the intentions of reparations may be, it would amount to just a welfare payment of sorts.

The same problems will exist. Reparations will fix nothing. Imo.

[Asithappens 974]

11 hours ago, American Swindle said:

In free market capitalism, businesses that defraud the public go out of business

That's just not true. At all. At least if you intend to make a blanket statement that applies to all companies who defraud the public.

I mean, really? 

Or do you mean by "go out of business" they close up shop and open up under a new name?

 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

9 hours ago, slorch said:

What the fuck do  I have to do with this?

My buddies I grew up with in gov’t housing, you know my token black friends that are still my friends today; joke like a motherfucker that I only made it out because I was white.

of course they made it too, so I give them credit for having such a hard fucking row to hoe because of their skin color.

 

you scorekeepin motherfuckers have not a clue what it takes in life to overcome.  Keep embracing your crutches and bullshit excuses...  You don't have a fucking clue what other people have been through.

Thoughts and prayers for all that guilt you fucking carry around.  It’s a lame ass excuse for a cause in life.

Don’t put that shit on me, yo.

 

We can’t all work in DC

[American Swindle 102]

12 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

love to get my information and analysis from Fight Club characters

you live in the DSA echo chamber and are displaying the bread and butter play when getting smashed: attack the source.  DD was right about the US assets (you see how I acknowledge the other side's point?) are more than our national debt (22 Trillion) and are reported at around 128 Trillion, but we still aren't wealthy and it isn't right we add on more government interventions when this same apparatus is responsible for spending us into a death spiral of unfunded liabilities to the tune of 210-220+Trillion Dollars. 

And you want MORE intervention?

 

More sources below. Now the burden is on you to discredit the claim of US unfunded liabilities, but you can't so carry on with your NPC-DSA echo chamber response.  Good Day.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2017/10/10/your-pension-is-a-lie-theres-210-trillion-of-liabilities-our-government-cant-fulfill/#71bad59265b1

https://dailyreckoning.com/205-trillion-in-unfunded-liabilities/

P.S. Socialism sucks and I'm still against reparations. 

 

[American Swindle 102]

12 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Please provide an example of free market capitalism in the real world.

Uber. Lyft.   Crony Capitalism is the Cabbies using the long dick of the local government to fuck them from competing. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by American Swindle

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, American Swindle said:

Uber. Lyft.   Crony Capitalism is the Cabbies using the long dick of the local government to fuck them from competing. 

I'd call that more the lobbyist game, which in and of itself is OK.  It's when the lobbyists use dollars to buy an outcome that it becomes wrong. 

Crony capitalism IMO, is helping the guy in your "club" squash something from somebody outside your little club or a related club (congress, banking industry, defense contractors, automobile industry, etc.)

[American Swindle 102]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd call that more the lobbyist game, which in and of itself is OK.  It's when the lobbyists use dollars to buy an outcome that it becomes wrong. 

Crony capitalism IMO, is helping the guy in your "club" squash something from somebody outside your little club or a related club (congress, banking industry, defense contractors, automobile industry, etc.)

Fair point, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that Uber and Lyft have are prime examples of free market successes that have provided a lot of value for consumers. 

I'm still against reparations.

[American Swindle 102]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd call that more the lobbyist game, which in and of itself is OK.  It's when the lobbyists use dollars to buy an outcome that it becomes wrong. 

Crony capitalism IMO, is helping the guy in your "club" squash something from somebody outside your little club or a related club (congress, banking industry, defense contractors, automobile industry, etc.)

But now to think about it, lobbyist lobby whom? government officials. those officials *could* be on the take.  kind of splitting hairs but you get it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, American Swindle said:

But now to think about it, lobbyist lobby whom? government officials. those officials *could* be on the take.  kind of splitting hairs but you get it.

Sure you could extrapolate lobbyists as gov't cronies I guess.  IMO you're potentially on the take whenever you take large donations for any industry or individual.  It has to color your decision making process.

[CO Horn 167]

27 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

you live in the DSA echo chamber and are displaying the bread and butter play when getting smashed: attack the source.  DD was right about the US assets (you see how I acknowledge the other side's point?) are more than our national debt (22 Trillion) and are reported at around 128 Trillion, but we still aren't wealthy and it isn't right we add on more government interventions when this same apparatus is responsible for spending us into a death spiral of unfunded liabilities to the tune of 210-220+Trillion Dollars. 

And you want MORE intervention?

 

More sources below. Now the burden is on you to discredit the claim of US unfunded liabilities, but you can't so carry on with your NPC-DSA echo chamber response.  Good Day.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2017/10/10/your-pension-is-a-lie-theres-210-trillion-of-liabilities-our-government-cant-fulfill/#71bad59265b1

https://dailyreckoning.com/205-trillion-in-unfunded-liabilities/

P.S. Socialism sucks and I'm still against reparations. 

 

If this is the case, doesn't it warrant a tax increase?

[bad_teammate 13226]

28 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

... but we still aren't wealthy and it isn't right we add on more government interventions when this same apparatus is responsible for spending us into a death spiral of unfunded liabilities to the tune of 210-220+Trillion Dollars. 

You're not making a rational argument, you're making a moralistic argument.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

Quote

More sources below.

I read them both. What now? Which parts, specifically, do you want to engage with?

I love this line from the Forbes piece: "This distinction doesn’t matter right now, but I bet it will someday."

lol what a fucking waste of time

[American Swindle 102]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You're not making a rational argument, you're making a moralistic argument.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

I read them both. What now? Which parts, specifically, do you want to engage with?

I love this line from the Forbes piece: "This distinction doesn’t matter right now, but I bet it will someday."

lol what a fucking waste of time

So you think it was right millions lost their 401ks, houses and pensions during the meltdown of 2008?  IT DOESN"T MATTER BUT WILL SOMEDAY.. haha.  IT"S OKAY WE NEEDED THE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION WHO CARES THEY ROBBED THE COMMON FOLK OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.  

lol you're a fucking waste of time

[American Swindle 102]

11 minutes ago, CO Horn said:

If this is the case, doesn't it warrant a tax increase?

 

privatize everything

[bad_teammate 13226]

35 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

So you think it was right millions lost their 401ks, houses and pensions during the meltdown of 2008?  IT DOESN"T MATTER BUT WILL SOMEDAY.. haha.  IT"S OKAY WE NEEDED THE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION WHO CARES THEY ROBBED THE COMMON FOLK OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.  

No, it wasn't right. That was a classic example of capital interest exploiting unequal power within government.

If it is logically sound for you to dismiss the validity of government intervention by pointing out an instance of government malfeasance, is it also logically sound to dismiss the validity of private industry by pointing out an instance of private industrial malfeasance?

[wildcat09 29439]

37 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

So you think it was right millions lost their 401ks, houses and pensions during the meltdown of 2008?  IT DOESN"T MATTER BUT WILL SOMEDAY.. haha.  IT"S OKAY WE NEEDED THE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION WHO CARES THEY ROBBED THE COMMON FOLK OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.  

lol you're a fucking waste of time

...are you blaming the 2008 meltdown on the federal government's deficit spending?

[bad_teammate 13226]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

...are you blaming the 2008 meltdown on the federal government's deficit spending?

He's focusing on the bailout and not the conditions that led to the need for a bailout.

Because... he's fucking stupid.

[CO Horn 167]

Quote

• So you think it was right millions lost their 401ks, houses and pensions during the meltdown of 2008?  IT DOESN"T MATTER BUT WILL SOMEDAY.. haha.  IT"S OKAY WE NEEDED THE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION WHO CARES THEY ROBBED THE COMMON FOLK OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.  

lol you're a fucking waste of time

Quote

privatize everything

So you say privatize everything and then talk about how people lost their 401(k)s and pensions in 2008.  This does not compute?

[David Dennison 18952]

39 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

privatize everything

Oh yeah, that'll work.

[BradInATX 9208]

American Swindle

Can you link us to any posts you've made in the post decrying government intrusion into the market, and debt-spending, when the government passed the multi-trillion dollar handout to corporations and the rich a couple years back? I know you're an ideologically consistent guy, so I'm sure if you did this you'd shut everyone up. You definitely should. You've got to have a bunch of posts on it, given how passionate you are about these issues.

Edited July 11, 2019 by BradInATX

[American Swindle 102]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

No, it wasn't right. That was a classic example of capital interest exploiting unequal power within government.

If it is logically sound for you to dismiss the validity of government intervention by pointing out an instance of government malfeasance, is it also logically sound to dismiss the validity of private industry by pointing out an instance of private industrial malfeasance?

Sure, but one entity uses their own money and personal capital and can go bankrupt and lose the capital, whereas the other uses force to gather their money via taxation to keep their structure intact and immune to market forces or risk.  

Quote

..are you blaming the 2008 meltdown on the federal government's deficit spending?

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He's focusing on the bailout and not the conditions that led to the need for a bailout.

Because... he's fucking stupid.

Quit being a little bitch.  I'm blaming the meltdown in large part to the government's intervention that led to the reckless lending in the sub-prime mortgage market.  You remember right? Everyone DESERVES A HOME. Sounds eerily similar to the unsustainable ideas of free college, free healthcare, UBI, and reparations. And the irony is that it was someone I'd presume you dislike: DUBYA, a republican.  But I'm sure you *loved* the idea that everyone deserved a home right?  I mean, if you're for Free College, The State taking your estate and redistributing it, Free HealthCare and UBI, You must have been for the GWB's promotion and push for home ownership no?  

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-admin.4.18853088.html

[wildcat09 29439]

At least he hasn't blamed it on the blacks, yet.